If I understand the words to this "song" correctly, it is the white man who is to blame -- according to "the singers," that is.But who responsible for these cretins?It's a combination of their parents, the school system (Howard Zinn!), lack of upbringing in a religious faith, and the social media.FT,I hope that your next post will offer a musical antidote to the poison presented in the "music" selection in this blog post.
Addendum: Another cause = the "performers" themselves. They're old enough to be held accountable for their own spew.
Well, AOW, as you know probably better than anyne else in the blogosphere, I have consistently posted examples of the very finest music literature Western Civilization has produced, and pieces with "light entertainment value" I think charming, instructive and sometimes humorous. I have always presented lots of good poetry from the great masters, verse of my own I hope may be worthy of review, and several short stories I thought pertinent in their entirety. I've presented enture movies and selected scenes from others I have found moving, meanngful or enjoyable in the past. I have presented pages and pages and pages of statistics, articles from many and varied publications and reems of essays containing carefully, lovingly phrased political philosophy and opinion. All of this has been to little or no avail.SO, "SHIT ON YOU" seemed an eminently appropriate selection to help change the tone here. Very frankly, it seems much more in line with the way most of our "contributors" seem to think. Who knows, maybe "SHIT ON YOU" will stimulate some honest, earnest, cogent thought for a change?Hope may still spring eternal, but she's growing wearier and more cynical by the hour.ALL worthwhile achievement has been produced against insuperable odds by a determined pull against inertia. The WILL to PRODUCE anything of great intrinsic VALUE seems to grow weaker every day. THAT, unfortunateoy, is what happens when "The Vulgar Populace, as Alexander Hamilton rightfully referred to them, takes charge and dictates terms.The Great Levellers -- those arrogant, haughty, belligerent, self-righteous, often demonic boneheads -- those "Intellectual Morons," who THINK they KNOW what's BEST for EVERYONE -- ought to be termed The Great Destroyers, because that IS what they are.If it weren't for "THEM," and their duplicitous, incessant, devilishly clever, satanically seductive monkeying around with our mores and sense of values, execrable "products" like "SHIT ON YOU" would not, and COULD not ever have come to our attention.Frankly, I think it's long past time someone took it upon himself to trumpet SHIT ON THEM all over the globe. Because SHIT is what "they" have given us, and SHIT is ALL they deserve.
I note that Freethinke shared his coprophagic fantasies more than once (I understand why Ducky recommend Pink Flamingos recently). I expect the motivation is the same in both cases -- an infantile urge to shock those who are easily shocked.Hip hop is bigger than this, of course. Even Eminem (member of D12) is bigger than this -- I often play peoplehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ssbofRfsPoas a one minute demonstration of what it is that I admire him for. It's crudely recorded over a rough backing, probably for a live radio broadcast or similar, but the use language will, I hope, delight Freethinke. In my opinion those two syllables at the end of each line make a very pleasing effect, and as a student of rhyme I'd be interested in his assessment of it. In particular, how difficult it is to pull something like that off.My point is this: even if you don't enjoy it, perhaps you can admire the skill; and even if you can't admire it, perhaps you can recognise that the interest they take in language overlaps significantly with your own passion. Once you do that, you might be able to notice elements of hip hop beyond those intended to shock.Since we're talking shit, I shall leave you with Lord Byron's musings on the subject, which he allegedly carved onto a toilet wall, presumably during a rather tricky (or insolent, as he would say) one.O Cloacina, goddess of this place,Look on thy supplicants with smiling face,Soft yet cohesive let their offerings flow,Not rashly swift nor insolently slow.
If the urban youth of today had jobs and responsibilities, they woiuldn't be wasting their time on this kind of cr*p. As it is, the government pays them to not work and get into trouble.Idle hands are the Devil's workshop.
Pearl Klutscher saidThere's no doubt that everyone was better off when these types were chopping cotton under the lash.
___________ THE UHOLY TRINITY ______________________ A Mourning Meditation __________When next you must excrete, please take the timeTo gaze upon the contents of the bowl.You will see there the Naked Face of Crime ––The Devil’s version of The Trinity ––A monstrous, odious, tri-partite WholeWhose stench persists into Infinity.For Evil stalked and plagued us in The GardenTempting us to sacrifice our SoulFor the pleasure of the Nether Region’s Warden.You will, of course, be eager quick to flushAway the proof that Hell, indeed, exists,And yet, like an inebriated lushA self-destructive passion persists:The false belief Equality exists.~ FreeThinke
The flow is pretty poor. I've heard much better.
Yeah, AOW, they've been reading Howard Zinn.
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Don't understand why you like to wallow so much, FT.The great bassist, Charlie Haden, passed away Friday. You could have just as easily featured his music and got the week off to a more positive start.
There's no doubt that everyone was better off when these types were chopping cotton under the lash.They were worse off building Chrysler's on the assembly line? Who knew?
One for Pearl.
Jez,How could I hope to produce "shock" in a culture that has rendered itself virtually shockproof? Though I appreciate the subtle humor in Byron's elegant circumlocution, and thank you for it, I still despair of our ever being able to reach a state of harmonious agreement on any of the things that matter most.CoproPHILIA (not coproPHAGIA!) suggests itself as a particularly apt analogue, parallel, metaphor, symbol or simile -- take your pick [for all I know it might even qualify as a metonymy or a synecdoche. Alas! my knowledge of the figures of speech doesn't reach quite that far ;-] -- for the present state of Popular Taste. Since the mid-1950's The West has been busily transferring its objects of allegiance and veneration from Goodness, Truth, Beauty, Good Taste, Brilliant Accomplishment and Godliness to the out-and-out worship of WASTE PRODUCTS. I'm not so foolish as to deny there is ample evidence of intelligence and even at work in much of the stuff I find repugnant, but IQ is very like fire, money, cutlery and gunpowder.Intelligence, like those other things, is neutral. WIthout the constraints of a clearly-defined moral code to which the majority subscribe, intelligence may be used for destructive, wholly evil purposes. IQ is not synonymous with virtue -- and vice versa, unfortunately.
If the people cannot trust their government to do the job for which it exists - to protect them and to promote their common welfare - all else is lost.- Barack ObamaHow's that quote working out for ya, Barry?
I sure wish that Barry would stop p*ssin' in my river!
As for troubling myself to listen to Eminem -- or anyone else of his odious ilk -- I can only quote my old friend Bitch Cassidy who famously said, when someone suggested she needed to get better acquainted with Karl Marx before criticizing him:HONEY! I don't need to eat a pound of shit to know it don't taste good."That's a classic.[I'd call it coproPHOBIC, by the way, but only if I felt the need to get fancy. ;-]
Oh, and while were at it, let's award another Golden Quacker for Self-Revelation to Canardo, our beloved Denigrator-in-Residence.
What value is a criticism from a critic who refuses to listen to the material he nevertheless criticises?(I don't type without error, but "coprophagic" was deliberate -- you do seem to write about it often.)
@ FreeThinke: "ALL worthwhile achievement has been produced against insuperable odds by a determined pull against inertia."Yes indeed. Knowing what I get out of the music I listen to, I wonder what the fans of this get out of it?Not making any judgements, just curious. I plead guilty to enjoying a wide variety of stuff, and my two guilty pleasures of the past few years were Foster the People's "Pumped up Kicks," and Cee Lo Green's "F*ck You."But those are outliers. I like deep, thoughtful lyrics and acoustic instruments.
I agree w/SF. It all about da bass!
FT: "Since the mid-1950's The West has been busily transferring its objects of allegiance and veneration from Goodness, Truth, Beauty, Good Taste, Brilliant Accomplishment and Godliness to the out-and-out worship of WASTE PRODUCTS."W.A. Mozart, and Germans in general used scatology (Yes, even Goethe!) in their songs and verse.So it is nothing new or anything to send one to his fainting couch!The divine Mozart took giddy pleasure in engaging in scatological verse in his music and in his letters: A letter of 5 November 1777 to Mozart's cousin Maria Anna Thekla Mozart:"Well, I wish you good nightBut first shit into your bed and make it burst.Sleep soundly, my loveInto your mouth your arse you'll shove."39 of Mozart's letters include scatological passages. Almost all of these are directed to Mozart's own family, specifically his father Leopold, his mother Anna Maria, his sister Nannerl, and his cousin Maria Anna Thekla Mozart. According to Simkin, Leopold, Anna Maria, and Nannerl also included scatological humor in their own letters."...[A]translation of part of a letter Mozart sent from Mannheim November 5, 1777:Deares cozz buzz!I have received reprieved your highly esteemed writing biting, and I have noted doted thy my uncle garfuncle, my aunt slant, and you too, are all well mell. We, too thank god, are in good fettle kettle ... You write further, indeed you let it all out, you expose yourself, you let yourself be heard, you give me notice, you declare yourself, you indicate to me, you bring me the news, you announce unto me, you state in broad daylight, you demand, you desire, you wish, you want, you like, you command that I, too, should could send you my Portrait. Eh bien, I shall mail fail it for sure. Oui, by the love of my skin, I shit on your nose, so it runs down your chin...""The canons were first published after Mozart's death with bowdlerized lyrics; for instance "Leck mir den Arsch fein rein" ("Lick me in the arse nice and clean") became "Nichts labt mich mehr als Wein" ("Nothing refreshes me more than wine")."Hip hop and rap artists are just following a Classical music tradition.
Another great composer, Bela Bartok. His son, Peter, recollects this song written by his father:Like Peter Bartók, scholars remain uneasy about the composer's peculiar humor. János Kárpáti's recent study on Bartók's humor demonstrates the discomfort. After quoting Béla Bartók Junior's statement about his father's preference for "tasteful humor," he recounts Peter Bartók's anecdote about the composer shocking a respectable company of ladies by reciting folk song texts such as:U-ju-ju-ju-ju-ju-ju,Aládába szart a juh;Amenyasszony kivette,Avõlegény megette!Oo, yoo....Into the box shit the ewe;The bride took it out,The groom eat it up!SOURCE
"As they say in the United States: “to be different is to be indecent.” The mass crushes beneath it everything that is different, everything that is excellent, individual, qualified and select. Anybody who is not like everybody, who does not think like everybody, runs the risk of being eliminated. And it is clear, of course, that this “everybody” is not “everybody.” “Everybody” was normally the complex unity of the mass and the divergent, specialised minorities. Nowadays, “everybody” is the mass alone. Here we have the formidable fact of our times, described without any concealment of the brutality of its features." (Chapter 1: The Coming of the Masses) "The Fascist and Syndicalist species were characterized by the first appearance of a type of man who did not care to give reasons or even to be right, but who was simply resolved to impose his opinions. That was the novelty: the right not to be right, not to be reasonable: 'the reason of unreason.'" (Chapter 8: Why the Masses Intervene in Everything and Why They Always Intervene Violently) "The Revolt of the Masses" Ortega y Gasset (1930)
"Knowing what I get out of the music I listen to, I wonder what the fans of this get out of it?"I listened to this a couple of times to try and begin to answer this question. Here are my thoughts, for what they're worth:Firstly, this isn't very good. I don't think anyone got anything out of this who wasn't already a fan of Eminem (who was immensely popular back when this was released), but people enjoy stuff like this it for the same reason they enjoy horror films; a mixture of genuine tension and humour. Even in this decidedly 4th-rate example, Eminem's delivery is compelling. He doesn't say much, but he tends to hold my attention while he says it.This is pretty old now, in pop years. I don't know what the mainstream rappers are like at the moment, but by some point in the early 90s it seemed that the only rappers getting signed were the "gangstas". Quite a pity.
Thanks, Miss Shaw.I thought of Mozart in this cintext, and hadn't yet yet gotten around to writing about it. you saved me the trouble and did a much better job tan I would have of discussing Mozart's (generally private) fascination with scatology. Many years ago, I enjoyed a program at then-Philharmonic-now Avery Fisher Hall based on a reading of Mozart's letters in English translation, of course, by Tony Randall of all people. Most of the examples you gave us -- and quite a few more besides -- were presented. It was interesting to see an in-depth exploration of this side of Puckish-Bad-Boy Mozart's nature, but I easily put it into perspective because by then I was well acquainted with the Requiem, Don Giovanni, Le nozze di Figaro, Cosi fan tutte, the Jupiter symphony, the G-Minor symphony, the Haffner symphony, several of his piano concerti and virtually all of his piano sonatas.In others words I understood then, and I understand even better now, some of what really COUNTS about Mozart. The fascination with scatology is trivial in comparison.These ugly thugs, apparently, have no other claim to fame than the profoundly offensive so-called "music" they've put on video. I think it REEKS and am not afriad to say so.
Oh. by the way, Henry Purcell was no slouch either when it came to celebrating "indecent" subject matter. In at least one of his madrigals the impudent conquest of a fair maiden was discussed in no uncertain terms. I distinctly remember hearing "He pulled out nine inches" a gesture which presumably sealed the young woman's fate, for she found the rascal irresistible and was thus deprived of her virginity.The writer Rabelais was noted for ribaldry, so much so that the adjective "Rabelaisian" was coined to describe works of similar character. Also, if I'm not mistaken there are references in Chaucer that might well be described as "off color."The dear King James Bible refers to "he that pisseth against the wall" any number of times in the Old Testament. Even after spending 40 years as a church organist in various loci I have to admit I never met a clergymen who dared read those verses from the pulpit. Bible or no Bible the Mrs. Grundys of the Ladies Aid Society would have had him run out of town before nightfall if he had!
The assessment that you've quoted of the masses is doubtless accurate, Thersites.I believe it was Oscar Wilde who said, "Whatever is popular is wrong."I think I know what he meant by that. It might have to with the Cadillac losing much of its appeal to the upper-middle class soon after blacks could be see swanning around in a coupe de ville in bad neighborhoods.Whether one approves or not, the power of IMAGE is ver great.No matter how accurate and findly detailed, a reproduction will never have the value of a true antique or original work of art. Mass production of classical designs has succeeded only in cheapening and degrading those styles. This, of course, is the tragedy Mass Production has brought to Civilization. Once "everybody" has one, no one really wants one any more -- no matter what "one" is.
Late to this lively discussion but I'll add my 2 cents worth.The "artistic expression" in question is a Load of Shit.The "artists" if you can call them that likely go through life with this as their guiding thought, Same Shit Different... Different Day.That video has absolutely zero value IMNHO. I have listened to many toddlers performing that are more artistic and actually bring joy to ones heart.
I work with many who place somewhere in the autism spectrum.May of these autists are obsessed with images of and talk of human excrement.Those on the spectrum are often gifted musicians.Of course, not all musicians are "on the spectrum." But many are.Just sayin'.
I'd be stunned to learn that any of those "singers" in the video ever studied Mozart.Again, just sayin'.
@ FT: Also, if I'm not mistaken there are references in Chaucer that might well be described as "off color."Yes, but despite passages about "buttocks broad and breasts round and high," and getting revenge with hot pokers, he employed tasteful language, despite the bawdy nature of many of his tales of cuckoldings and such. From The Miller's Tale:This Absalom plumped down upon his knees, And said: "I am a lord in all degrees;For after this there may be better still Darling, my sweetest bird, I wait your will."The window she unbarred, and that in haste. "Have done," said she, "come on, and do it fast, Before we're seen by any neighbour's eye."This Absalom did wipe his mouth all dry; Dark was the night as pitch, aye dark as coal, And through the window she put out her hole.And Absalom no better felt nor worse, But with his mouth he kissed her naked arse Right greedily, before he knew of this.Aback he leapt- it seemed somehow amiss, For well he knew a woman has no beard;He'd felt a thing all rough and longish haired, And said, "Oh fie, alas! What did I do?""Teehee!" she laughed, and clapped the, window to; And Absalom went forth a sorry pace."A beard! A beard!" cried clever Nicholas,"Now by God's corpus, this goes fair and well!"Pretty racy stuff, but employed while telling an entertaining tale that conveys timeless wisdom.I love Chaucer!
The first part of Canterbury Tales is my favorite, with the tale-tellers employing one another's profession as the butt of their joke, a fixture since time immemorial, I imagine. In Panama I saw contests in small villages where participants invent songs on the fly about neighbors and rivals, and they are hilarious. Other countries down there do it as well.Although I'm less familiar with our own urban scene, it's my understanding that such things are common there as well.At the risk of sounding stodgy, I think what many complain about today is simply vulgarity for vulgarity's sake, with no deeper meaning behind it.Planes, Trains and Automobiles was a perfectly fine movie for pretty much the whole family, and suddenly, in the middle, Steve Martin shouts the f-word.But I don't hold any high ground. I still find the old Jerky Boys stuff absolutely side-splitting.
The Jerky Boys? Laughed so hard, I cried.One of the funniest.
Thanks for those lively additions to the discussion from Chaucer, Kurt. In my opinion it isn't subject MATTER that matters, but rather the way the subject is TREATED. We've seen examples of decidedly earthy language and imagery from The Bible, Chaucer, Purcell, Mozart, Byron, Bartok and your humble correspondent. The distance between all of that, varied though it be, and today's not-so-charming selection SHIT ON YOU is the complete lack of anything that could by any stretch of the imagination be called "socially redeeming value.Jes, like every other leftist in my acquaintance ,seems always to feel compelled to defend the indefensible and champion the lowest, beastliest, deadliest most perverse and obnoxious "cultural" manifestations as though they somehow DESERVED to be discussed, dissected and defended like something of value and significance.As I said earlier, the West has turn from God in favor of worshipping SHIT. There's no other word for it. And I AM passing judgment proudly, intolerantly and irrevocably. I KNOW what 'good" is, as surely as I understand the differences between Bitter and Sweet, Pleasure and Pain, Hunger and Satiety, Inviting and Repellent, Beauty and Ugliness, Wholesomeness and Depravity, etc.Most Modern and post-Modern thinking, if one could properly call it that, is the spawn of Satan -- and I do not invoke his name lightly.As C.S. Lewis observed, "Satan's greatest accomplishment to date has been to convince most people that he doesn't exist" -- something like that, I don't have the exact quotation before me.The very fact of our having this particular discussion in a public forum is proof enough of the decadence of our decidedly degenerate age. I, of course, am part of it too, or I wouldn't be here. I'm sure my dear Mama is turning in her grave. She, dear lady that she was, was one of those women who wouldn't have said "SHIT," even if she'd had a mouthful of it. Sic transit gloria mundi.
Shaw:It's sophomoric humor, but damn it's funny.This is Rizzo. Frank Rizzo! Open your ears, jackass!
"I think what many complain about today is simply vulgarity for vulgarity's sake"Nothing wrong with that objection. It's not always worth the effort or offense. Filthy comedians or musicians etc. are purposefully not courting the broadest audience. This type of hip hop, like punk before it, deliberately excludes some (most?) people.In defense of filth, while I like some clean stuff and hate most dirty stuff, I notice that the stuff which I like AND is dirty hits hardest of all. It's the difference between Cosby and Pryor.Any of you know George Fornby? Blessed if i can find a higher purpose to his torrent of innuendo (nor the Miller's tale). They don't need one, i would argue.
@FT --- We've seen examples of decidedly earthy language and imagery from The Bible, Chaucer, Purcell, Mozart, Byron, Bartok and your humble correspondent.-------Let's cut to the chase and end this charade.They're all white.
Ducky, I know many people of color that would find the junk on that video repulsive FreeThinke is right.
I haven't defended this song, have I?You describe familiarity with your own aesthetic criteria, not an objective standard. I say hip hop is valid, i don't say you should like it.
Heavy Metal and Punk bands were doing this sort of stuff 40 years ago. What makes you think intentionally offensive music is something new? Ever hear a drunk Irish guy singing the ol' songs?JMJ
And lighten up! For Christ's sake!JMJ
I bet there are lots of suburban white kids listening to this just to piss off their parents right now. You guys are just getting old.JMJ
Cheap shot jmj, cheap shot.
That reminds me, RN, Tommy Ramone passed away the other day.Now finally, a white band that FT must have despised.But cut to the chase. FT is somehow convinced that political correctness is all that prevents him from exposing the dangers of the "abysmal primitivism of African tribes"But I'll give him some credit, he's not one of the "I like everything but rap". Anything with the hint of rebellion draws his wrath.So you have black friends who don't like explicit rap. Doesn't get us any closer to understanding why it's out there.
I rest my case.
We often find ourselves at odds FreeThinke, but just for record I'm frequently perplexed by the left as well.Truth usually is found somewhere between the far right and far left nearer to the center. But I freely admit to being a bit center biases
Ducky pisses me off when I see old white dudes tryin to be all cool wid it
'I think I know what ... Oscar Wilde ... meant [when he] said, "Whatever is popular is wrong."'I am confident that you're wrong; his snobbery, if he suffered from that affliction, was more likely to be of the inverted variety. For example, in this remark (made concerning archaeology's popularity in 19th century artistic circles) he lampoons upper middle class tastes.Wilde's own contributions are, of course, wildly popular. He must be turning in his grave. Not only that, but his socially redeeming value is arguable.
Once again I will assert that the widely varying inferences audiences, readers, performers and observers may draw from works of art or quotations taken from poems, essays, plays or novels are probably more significant than the specific intentions stated, conjectured or assumed of the authors, poets playwrights and composers.Johannes Brahms of whom I happen to be a direct musical descendant, having studied with two well known pianists, highly regarded in the music world, who were intimately acquainted with the composer -- anyway -- Brahms was humble and generous enough to wonder and take delight in the unique insights early performers of his works brought to their interpretations. Josef Joachim, who premiered Brahms's violin concerto, and my pianistic grandfather, Carl Friedberg, a close friend of Brahms and pupil of Clara Schumann who was a pioneer in the performance of the two concerti an solo piano works, were greatly admired by the composer, who CONSULTED with them and ASKED for SUGGESTIONS as to how the works might best be interpreted.In one incident, reported to me when I was fourteen, Brahms was said to have exclaimed after hearing Friedberg's rendition of the F-Minor Sonata, "AHA! So it can be played THAT way TOO! It never would have occurred to me, but YES -- it WORKS. CONGRATULATIONS!"Another story, reported by James Huneker, and quoted in the preface to a Schirmer edition of Chopin's piano works, gives Chopin's answer when asked what had inspired him to write the F-Minor Fantasy, Opus 49. I won't report i here, but, knowing the piece as well as I do after having studied and performed it numerous times over a period of thirty years, I can tell you Chopin's "programme" was a preposterous, ponderous bit of nonsense obviously stated with tongue-in-cheek to an onlooker Chopin, who didn't suffer fools gladly, must have regarded as more than a bit of an ass.And YET, earnest "scholars" with their dreary, tedious preoccupation with trying always to find the literal "truth," have doubtless regarded this anecdote as The Key to understanding precisely how the work "ought" to be performed.Such people miss the point of living, which Mrs. Levhinne understood and articulated so so well, when she said "Anyone can acquire technique, but to be an artist you must learn to listen with your heart."
I suppose Canardo's querulous quacking, contemptible conjecture and faulty fabrications should be removed, but it amuses me to see just how completely off base some of my most persistent antagonists can be.Now please, let us drop this depressing thread, and partake, instead, of the radiant glory in Rosina Lhevinne's scintillating performance -- at age eighty -- of the Rondo from Mozart's 21st piano concerto.
IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE FOLLOWING, YOU DON'T BELONG HERE, SO KINDLY GET OUT AND STAY OUT.We welcome ConversationBut without Vituperation.If your aim is Vilification ––Other forms of Denigration ––Unfounded Accusation --Determined Obfuscation ––Alienation with Self-Justification ––We WILL use COMMENT ERADICATION.IN ADDITIONGratuitous Displays of Extraneous Knowledge Offered Not To Shed Light Or Enhance the Discussion, But For The Primary Purpose Of Giving An Impression Of Superiority are obnoxiously SELF-AGGRANDIZING, and therefore, Subject to Removal at the Discretion of the Censor-in-Residence.
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