Wednesday, August 22, 2012

Dutch Courage

The Netherlands, 
Where Six Percent 
Of The Population 
Is Now Muslim, 
Is Scrapping Multiculturalism

Former Dutch Interior Minister Piet Hein Donner

[NOTE: Recently, we received this item in an email. If it isn’t literally true, we think it certainly ought to be ~ FT]

The Dutch government says it will abandon the long-standing model of  multiculturalism that has encouraged Muslim immigrants to create a  parallel society within the Netherlands.

A new integration bill, which Dutch Interior Minister Jan Pieter Hendrik Donner  presented to parliament on  Jun 16, 2011 reads:

"The government shares the social dissatisfaction over the  multicultural society model and plans to shift priority to the values of the Dutch people. In the new integration system, the values of the Dutch society play a central role. With this change, the government steps away from the model of a multicultural society."

The letter continues:

"A more obligatory integration is justified because the government also demands that from its own citizens. It is necessary because otherwise the society gradually grows apart and eventually no one feels at home anymore in the Netherlands.
The new integration policy will place more demands on immigrants. For example, immigrants will be required to learn the Dutch language, and the government will take a tougher  approach to immigrants who ignore Dutch values or disobey Dutch law.”

The government will also stop offering special subsidies for Muslim immigrants because, according to Donner;

"It is not the government's job to integrate immigrants" The government will introduce new legislation that outlaws forced marriages and will also impose tougher measures against Muslim immigrants who lower their chances of employment by the way they dress.”

More specifically, the government will impose a ban on face-covering,  Islamic burqas as of January 1, 2013 Holland has done that whole liberal thing, and realized, it maybe too late, that creating a nation of tribes will kill the nation itself.

Muslim immigrants most often leave their countries of birth because of civil and  political unrest created by the very nature of their culture. 

Countries like Holland and Australia have an established way of life that actually works, so why embrace the unworkable? If Muslims do not wish to accept another culture, the answer is simple: stay where you are.

This gives a whole new meaning to the term “Dutch Courage.”

Unfortunately, in CANADA, the UK and USA and other countries politicians  don't yet have the courage to do the same.

~ § ~

What do you think about it?


  1. First, I think that any immigrant should learn the language of the new country they wish to call their home. That's just plain respect for the nation that takes you in and provides you a better opportunity.

    Second, they should be allowed to wear whatever the heck they want. Laws that ban religious garb are completely contrary to everything we, as Americans, believe in. A human being should never have to choose between following the practices of one's religion and obeying the law. The burqas don't harm anyone except maybe the sensibilities of some non-christianphobes.

    Third, it's not a "Muslim," cultural problem that they're facing. Islam is a religion, not a culture. The problem they're running into is an Arab culture problem. People need to get a clue and realize that Islam =/= Arab culture or vice versa.

    Lastly, the whole "values" thing seems a little bit too much like indoctrination. So long as they're not breaking the law, what values they follow really shouldn't matter. Now, I agree that their religious law and values should never, ever be considered above the law of the land, but other than that they're allowed to believe whatever the heck they want to believe.

    As far as I understood it, multiculturalism simply means that we allow people to be who they are. Sure, we should teach them about our values and show them what this country is all about, but it's up to them on whether or not they want to integrate culturally. And yes, they should learn the language of whatever country they go to, but they can function perfectly fine in societ while maintaining their cultural identity.

    The only time it truly becomes a problem is when it interferes with the law, or when some cultural supremecists get all upset and afraid that their own native culture is going to be supplanted.

  2. I guess the real fear is the extremist in the "Arab"/"Persian" cultures that use the Religion of Islam to justify their terrorist activities.

    If those in the west, Europe and America fail to respond appropriately to this very real threat we will have ourselves to thank when democracy and our democratic republic is torn asunder by the forces of extreme radical Islam.

    Other than that Jack I am pretty much in agreement.

  3. No Jack, it is an Islam problem. Christian and irreligious Arabs do not noisily clamor to bring 6th century obscurantist practices with them when they immigrate to a new country; Muslims do.

    Some Europeans are now waking up to the fact that militant Islam is using Europe's vaunted liberalism against itself.

    As Abigail Esman, a liberal who loves living in Holland has brilliantly observed, tolerant Europe must become intolerant to intolerance.

  4. I agree with you on that one RN. Those who buy into radical Islam are trying to subvert western culture, but I think that we ought to be careful as to what we deem to be subversion.

    Things like the burqa I think have become symbolic of Radical Islam, and that's wholly unfair in my opinion. In fact, I think the terrorists actually wanted that. They're happy that so many westerners are turned off by the burqa, because that further marginalizes pious, peace-loving Muslims.

    So then the terrorists can say "see, the infidels hate you because you're Muslim!"

    If we think about it logically, I don't think we have much to fear from cultural subversion. Religion, for most people, is something that is deeply ingrained into their psyche, because most people are raised under a certain religion. It's not a stretch to convert from one brand of Christianity to another, but to convert to another religion entirely? That takes a lot more than suggestions.

    Christians generally don't become Jews or Muslims. Muslims generally don't convert to Christianity or Judaism. Jews generally don't convert to Christianity or Islam. That's just the way it is.

    No one who lives in the west--no one who enjoys religious freedom--would ever think that adopting the Arab/Persian culture is a good thing.

    And mind you, it is Arab/Persian culture that is the problem, not Islam.

    A good friend of mine is from Africa. He is a Muslim, and he fled Mauritania because he was charged to be a "revolutionary," and "enemy of the state." What's funny about that is that he is a pacifist, and he was a member of the PEACE CORPS. The problem, as he saw it, was not Islam but Arab culture. He's an African Muslim, not an Arab, and he saw how Arab culture was destroying his religion and ultimately his country.

  5. Silver we've had this conversation a million times.

    If Islam is the problem, then why haven't all the Muslims allover the world risen up to take it over and destroy everything in the name of Allah?

    Look at Malaysia. It's not a stink-hole. Heck, you can even openly practice Christianity there and you're not held to Sharia law if you're a non-muslim.

    To quote from the almighty wikipedia:

    "Malaysia has had one of the best economic records in Asia, with GDP growing an average 6.5 per cent annually from 1957 to 2005.[3] In 2010 the GDP (PPP) was $414,400 billion, the 3rd largest economy in ASEAN and 29th largest in the world."

    So there you have it. A muslim country that is not oppressive and at the same time prosperous. And guess what: it's not an Arab or Persian country. Yes Silver, Muslims can and do live peacefully on this planet.

    Look at the UAE. Yes, it's technically illegal to practice Christianity, and they actually pay you to convert to Islam, but Dubai is wealthier than nearly every American city. It's a Muslim country, but it's insanely wealthy. UAE wised up and realized that the oppressive regimes were great for maintaining power, but not so much for generating wealth. So they abandoned the old ARAB model of rule and went for something a little more accommodating.

  6. Also, Indonesia:

    It's Muslim, but it's booming. Shall I continue providing you with examples of non-Arab Muslim countries that are thriving and not oppressing their people?

  7. Since the Netherlands has always had a significant Indonesian population your emphasis on the Arab vs. Muslim dichotomy is worth noting.

  8. Jack, you're falling into logical fallacy land.

    Saying Muslims are the problem is not saying all Muslims are the problem.

    Also, Pakistanis are not Arabs.

    The problems plaguing Europe are coming from Muslims, not Christians or the irreligious who spill out of their Islamic hellholes.

    You can riff all day on cultural diversions, but the people Europe is having trouble with is Muslims.

  9. And what problems are those, other than Muslims pissing off the white supremacists?

  10. Logical fallacy land?

    What is illogical in ANYTHING I said?

    My point was that there are Muslim societies outside of the Middle East that thrive and do not oppress their people.

    I know that Pakistanis are not Arabs, they fall into the Persian culture. But Persian and Arab cultures are very similar, and we've seen the same sort of oppressive behavior come out of them.

    My point is that ISLAM is NOT the problem. It's like saying that all the socialism problems in Europe spring from those damn Christians.

    So explain to me why there are Muslim countries that are NOT hell holes? Why do they thrive if Islam is the problem?

  11. The change in policy appears to be true.

    Many ethnic groups do not totally assimilate. But how bad are the clashes, really? Most of the time, I mean.

    Of all the groups of immigrants coming into the West, when there are problems with assimilation and related clashes, we often find that the problems are coming from Muslims.

    So, is the problem Islam? It's no secret that such is my position on that topic.

    Next comes the question: If the problem is Islam, then why aren't all Muslims producing clashes? Well, perhaps it is a minority of Muslims who adhere to "the original Islam."

    Think of it this way....The Roman Catholic Church's position is to forbid use of the birth control bill. Yet, every Roman Catholic woman whom I personally know of child bearing age is on the pill! Thus, the practice of Roman Catholicism differs from one of the main teachings of the church.

    Could not the converse be true of Islam? "The original Islam" is shari'a (the harshest aspects, I mean), but many Muslims don't practice those aspects.

  12. By "harshest aspects," I mean those aspects which are contrary to the present Western values. The treatment of women comes to mind, but there are clearly other aspects of "the harshest" shari'a as well -- including civil punishment for blasphemy.

  13. Oops! Forgot to check the comments-notification box.

  14. Why have Muslims been so successful in the U.S?

  15. What Muslims have been SO successful in the US?
    And I think more Muslims have killed whites than White supremacists have thought of killing muslims...just a fact.

    FT, I'm still reeling from the media thinking Republicans will be upset that Paul Ryan had a black girlfriend. It's unbelievable, isn't it? I saw your comment at SF's.
    And, GOD FORBID, his sis-in-law is black! UHOH!
    I think it's great :-)

  16. Duck,
    You asked: Why have Muslims been so successful in the U.S?

    Religious commitment, first of all. Devout Muslims absolutely believe that they are living their lives in fulfillment of the will of Allah. Furthermore, they will not compromise their convictions, radical or otherwise.


    Muslims are not ashamed to practice their faith. Christians, on the other hand, are often reticent to say even a short blessing in a public restaurant.


    They have "the long view."

    Christians as a whole lost that kind of commitment a long, long time ago -- or the willingness to show that commitment for various reasons.

    Honestly, I have more respect for Muslims than for most Christians because Muslims really do believe in their faith -- although, of course, I maintain that Islam is paganism.

  17. Z,
    I fail to understand why the Left is yapping about Paul Ryan's black sister-in-law and his former girlfriend in college.

    Oh, wait! I get it about the latter! Ryan must be a racist because he didn't marry a girl whom he was dating in college.

  18. "Honestly, I have more respect for Muslims than for most Christians because Muslims really do believe in their faith"

    I would say that automatic respect for religious commitment is misplaced. It must at least depend on the religion. Could you respect the sincere followers of Molech who, according to the old testament, regularly sacrificed young babies?

  19. It all boils down to this and hi alone:



    ~ FT

  20. "My point is that ISLAM is NOT the problem."

    Debatable, but that's not the issue discussed in this post. The issue is Muslim immigrants who refuse to assimilate. Not Christians, not atheists or agnostics or apostates, but Muslims.

  21. Ducky asks a great question:

    "Why have Muslims been so successful in the U.S?"

    The premise of his question is verifiable true, so it deserves an answer.

    My opinion is that most Muslims come here to escape the 24/7 horror show in their home countries and they don't want to see it repeated here.

    Despite a few bigots, Americans are pretty accepting once we get to know someone. We have assimilated Muslims better than any other non-Muslim country, and there is no country where Muslims enjoy so much freedom and economic success as here in the United States.

  22. Jez,
    Could you respect the sincere followers of Molech who, according to the old testament, regularly sacrificed young babies?

    Don't be absurd. I didn't mean that at all.

    I was thinking of how Muslims aren't ashamed to practice their faith (I mean in a peaceful way, so don't run off the cliff with that statement of mine, either). They stop EVERYTHING -- even in shopping malles -- to observe the call to prayer. Meanwhile, most Christians are practicing "duck and cover."

  23. You believe that the Islamic religion contains anti-female elements and civil punishments for blasphemy, yet the strength of a person's faith still commands your respect.

    Could you respect a devout follower of Molech who went to great lengths to observe the religion, but who didn't do the baby sacrifices?

    My question is absurd, but I don't know how it is more absurd than my understanding of your position. I may well be wrong, and I don't mean to be rude by it.

  24. Jez,
    I am anti-Islam but not anti-Muslims per se.

    Something along the lines of condemn the sin but not the sinner -- although that is too simplistic for my taste.

    I know many people of different religions and a few "militant" atheists as well. In fact, my mother-in-law's boyfriend is a "militant" atheist; I've never known a kinder man. His political views drive me up a wall as he is quite Leftist. But he showed much more compassion to my mother-in-law that her own self-professed and self-righteous daughter, who robbed her mother blind in the full knowledge that my mother-in-law was suffering from Alzheimer's Disease. My sister-in-law took her mother's last bit of the nest egg, then high-tailed it all the way across the country to Georgia, beyond the arm of elder law in California, thus leaving her own mother in dire financial straits and on the state's dole for the hideous final stage of Alzheimer's.

    The Christian church as a whole looks weak in faith in comparison to the devotion of the followers of Islam.

    Believe the faith you have, but if you believe, stand by that faith.

    So many Christians are excellent at lip service, but compromise in living the faith.

  25. Was the bill ever passed? has it become law in Holland? Or has it just faded away?



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