Wednesday, February 4, 2015

What is Your Opinion 
of Mandatory Vaccination?


  1. Here we go again, These demoRATAS are inventing another issue. They claim that all Republicans are Neanderthals who don't believe in vaccination and so they now support it. Unfortunately many demoRATAS, Progressives, believed that vaccinations were causing Autism and were dead set against it. Now they see an opening to cause another issue against Republicans.
    Here’s a plan for you demoRATAS, Progressives, and all other sociopaths like Libertarians, if you plan on NOT having your kids immunized, please home school them then.
    New Flash! Vaccines Work!
    While the Centers for Disease Control the claim that the Illegal Aliens could be to blame For the Measles Outbreak that began in California and has continued to spread to other states is linked to these immigrant children, others in the demoRATAS party refused to accept that judgment,
    The doctors at the Centers for Disease Control are scared to death to say it for fear that the federal government will come down on top of them.
    So not surprisingly, Obama brings in all these third-world peasants in and send them throughout the country, and it’s not the Mexican kids dying or the Central American kids dying from this, it’s the Americans because they don’t have the immunities.
    The Centers for Disease Control went on to say, "You gotta have sympathy for the illegal alien child that is burdened with this disease, but you also have to do what you can to protect American kids from the suffering and sometimes death associated with this disease. Experts have traced recent measles outbreaks to unvaccinated individuals returning from areas such as southern Asia, Africa and parts of Europe where the disease has not been eradicated"

    Yes I have heard that a lot of illegal aliens head right for Disneyland after crossing border.
    I also heard that when these kids attend our public schools they are not required to be immunized but get the same great education American kids receive !
    So no matter how they try to repackage it, the fauld is in the hands of the Obama administration. These illegal immigrants put their children at risk for highly infectious diseases by refusing to get them vaccinated. Not like anyone here in this well-educated, highly informed country would ever do anything so reckless.

    And that pretty much nails it!

  2. So I guess that the Liberals are saying we should stop the free flow of illegals into this country with out health screening? Or have they changed their minds (again) Is’t it Ironic how the liberals now want to allow those same horrid diseases back into the country.
    You stupid simple minded brainwashed assclowns can’t see the light of day with a flashlight. This is getting to be downright ridiculous! But what else did anyone expect?.
    I say vaccinate, or GET OUT of this country!

    1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    2. Why did you delete my comment?

      I have been posting as Fred Baron for over a year. Granted, I have no trademark on the name, and didn't go to the sock puppet lengths to create a blogger account, but still, what lack of originality by the above poster.

    3. How could I be sure which one of you is the "real" Fred Baron, since every one of us is a fake anyway?

      Why did I delete it? Because I'm trying very hard to avoid the little feuds and spitefests that spring up and derail the discussion from what-I-believe-ought-to-be its true purpose

      Besides, the 'other' Fred, if that's who he, she, or it is, didn't say anything irritating, offensive, inane or irrelevant. If he HAD, 'he' would have been jettisoned.

      I'm far more fed up with boilerplate, ritualized invective, and leftist BS than I am with the Impersonation Game, which I, personally, find amusing.

      "God grant me he serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the power to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

      Some of the wisest and most useful words ever set down.

    4. So I guess changing The Sleeping Giant would just be utterly impossible, huh?

      Vaccinations are a state a local issue, for the most part. The fact that this is even an issue is astounding. I just don't understand how anyone could be so horrible a parent as to deny their child's vaccinations.


  3. Rand Paul says vaccines can lead to "mental disorders.". I guess that HE was never vaccinated ....Conversation over!

  4. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  5. Vaccines work. The root of the problem is a mistrust of government. Also, questioning protocols or asking if the trace elements in them are safe will subject you to a hail of opprobrium and hoots of derision.

    Notice how questioning government is out now that the hippies and leftwingers got control of government and society?

    Other factors to consider:

    Give medicine to a large enough group of people, and a few will develop adverse reactions.

    Is it safe to give so many at once? They have raised the limit in recent years.

    Why doesn't our government enforce vaccinations of immigrants like sane government do?

    Why did our government release unvaccinated people into the populace?

    A final note, the anti-vaxxers are not all rightwing troglodytes. Most are Mother Jones leftwing hippie types.

    1. SF,
      Why doesn't our government enforce vaccinations of immigrants like sane government do?

      Hear! Hear!

  6. What's your opinion of mandatory enemas?

  7. Improved sanitation and nutritional measures did more to combat measles than the vaccine which didn't show up until 1962.

  8. Vaccinations simply and plainly make sense, and there is science to prove it.

    So, yes, mandatory vaccination does make sense.

  9. Vaccinations simply and plainly don't make sense, and there is MATH ro prove it.

    Incremental Risk in highly vaccinated population (if a child does not vaccinate by age 5):

    In the mumps outbreak in the USA in 2006 [5], mumps outbreaks occurred primarily on college campus in the Midwest. A total of 6584 cases and 85 hospitalizations were reported in 2006; no deaths occurred. No large outbreaks were reported at primary or secondary schools. In the 18-24 years age group, the incidence of mumps was higher than in all the other age groups combined by a factor of 3.7. Of the patients with known vaccination status, less than 4% of those under the age of 30 years were unvaccinated. Only about 3.3% of the cases occurred in children under age 5, with an incidence rate of approximately 40/10,000 for age <1 and 180/10,000 for ages 1-4. Neither vaccination status nor race or ethnic group was significantly associated with complications.

    Approximately 3.5% of cases occurred in the under five population in the USA 2006 mumps outbreak [5]. Based on the average number of cases from 2004 - 2008 (1682), the average number of cases in children under five would be 59. The WHO reports the case fatality rate worldwide at 1 in 10,000 cases [1]. Assuming that the risk of death is only to unvaccinated children, and assuming a max vaccination rate of 96% [5], then the cumulative risk of death to the child over the first five years of life was calculated to be 0.00036 per 10,000 children or a 1 in 27,911,286 risk.

    Encephalitis occurs at a rate of 2 in 100,000 cases and deafness results in 5 in 100,000 cases [3]. Assuming that the risk of encephalitis or deafness is only to unvaccinated children, and assuming a max vaccination rate of 96% [5], then the cumulative risk of permanent injury to the child over the first five years of life was calculated to be 0.00025 per 10,000 children or a 1 in 39,873,265 risk.

    Incremental Risk in population with low vaccination (if a child does not vaccinate by age 5):

    Assuming that infection levels increased to USA pre-vaccine levels in 1964, when there were approximately 212,000 cases per year [3] in a population of 192,000,000 [7], then the incidence rate would be 11 per 10,000 each year.

    The WHO reports the case fatality rate worldwide at 1 in 10,000 cases [1]. The cumulative risk of death to the child over the first five years of life was calculated to be 0.00552 per 10,000 children or a 1 in 9,056,604 risk.

    Encephalitis occurs at a rate of 2 in 100,000 cases and deafness results in 5 in 100,000 cases [3]. The cumulative risk of permanent injury to the child over the first five years of life was calculated to be 0.00386 per 10,000 children or a 1 in 12,938,006 risk.

    I've got better odds of winning the LOTTO than in catching a "vaccinatable" disease and suffering any permanent harm from it.

    1. source:
      Look 'em up, draw your own conclusions.

    2. Global Warming, source: Ted Turner's IPCC. Draw your own conlusions.

    3. I do.

      NB most of the adverse reactions to mumps arise when it develops in an adult, so cumulative risk up to age 5 misses the point.

    4. ...except that the odds numbers in both cases reflect that self-same assumption, making them useful for comparison.

  10. Something to consider Thersites.

    Sounds like the old Russian Roulette anaogy.

    Thank you for the data.

  11. I do not favor mandatory vaccinations as a general measure on the part of the government. I am concerned that vaccine after vaccine may overload immune systems.

    I am of the age when we had DPT, polio, and smallpox vaccines. But I was never vaccinated for MMR or chickenpox. Of all that I personally knew who contracted measles, mumps, rubella, or chickenpox as children, only one child died of the aftereffects of chickenpox.

    My uncle died at age 31 when he contracted chickenpox for the second time; his immune system was compromised somehow (Three jobs!), and he developed encephalitis, for which antibiotics were not prescribed soon enough in 1949.

    1. Furthermore, competence in genera seems to be declining, and I'm not sure that I trust laboratories as much as I used to.

    2. We are already a few generations into immune system compromise. Vaccines combined with less breastfeeding means moms no longer pass along (I can't think of the word... antibodies? I'm not a medical person).

      Someone mentioned polio, which crippled and killed people, so I would think that is a necessary vaccine. The others? I don't know. I suppose it depends on the person. As Thersites pointed out, sanitation and hygiene have probably done more to eradicate many illnesses than some vaccines.

      Nobody in my house gets flu shots. They are a shot in the dark anyway, and from what I've read, a healthy person whose immune system is not compromised doesn't need them.

    3. SF,
      The word you're looking for is antibodies.

      You're right about the breastfeeding being important for a baby's immune system. Unfortunately, I couldn't take mother's milk because of severe allergies to who-knows-what. As I mentioned in another comment, those allergies likely cause my bad reaction to the DPT shot. No more three-in-one shots given to me -- ever.

      As for the flu vaccines, I've been getting them since age 10 because of my mother's cardiac and renal issues; her immune system was compromised, of course.

      Do I need the flu shots now? It depends on how my immune system is doing at the time, I guess. As a teacher, I am exposed to many viruses. I've also learned that general anesthesia compromises my immune system for months.

      I've had the flu twice -- once, 1972, when I didn't get the flu shot (which was on target) and this year (flu shot not on target).

      Flu can kill and result in permanent cardiac/pulmonary damage.

  12. At root the question touches upon the age-old question as to whether Liberty trumps safety or vice versa? As a libertarian, except for demanding cooperation with the universally agreed upon proscriptions against murder, mayhem, theft, vandalism rape, kidnapping and extortion, I am not in favor of FORCING anyone to do ANYTHING.

    It's all about leading horses to water, etc.

  13. I am a libertarian and fully support vaccinations, I had an uncle that had polio as a child and spent the rest of his life walking with braces and canes. It would seem to me that the problem of the spread of vaccinable diseases is only really a problem for those not vaccinated against them, the real problem arises when I'm expected to pay for the lifetime medical care of a person disabled by a vaccinable disease or even pay for the cost of treatment. So if you don't want vaccines that's fine by me, but when lightning strikes you need foot the bill. So as I'll say this... as long as I'm forced to contribute financially to other peoples medical care, they damn well ought to be required get the the frigging vaccines. Whatever the risk you can't privatize the gain and socialize the risk.

    1. Well, I am a libertarian and fully support, that anything that people wish to do, then they should be allowed to do it.

  14. My father was a strong believer in vaccinations: his sister died of diphtheria.

    In 1952, I was vaccinated for DPT all at once around the age of 6 months and ended up in pediatric intensive care. Apparently, my underlying allergies, not yet detected, interacted somehow with the vaccination. After that, I wasn't given vaccinations in batches; rather, my parents made as many trips as necessary to the doctor so as not to overload me again. Sadly, most parents today refuse to inconvenience themselves with so many trips to the pediatrician.

  15. as long as I'm forced to contribute financially to other peoples medical care, they damn well ought to be required get the the frigging vaccines.

    But you are perfectly willing to pay for a lifetime course of retroviral treatments so that fudge packers w/HIV can continue packing fudge without any financial consequences.

    1. Then try broadening your condemnations a little. A principle might be nice. Like ban tobacco. Fine over-eaters. Or better, get government out of the health care business!

  16. Mr. Bill from New Hampshire writes

    Currently, a debate rages about vaccinating or not vaccinating in the face of a spreading measles outbreak. Not discussed are reappearing diseases which had been consigned to the third world for the past fifty years. Let’s look at the pattern of the diseases popping up in America and see the prevalence of illegal aliens and Central American children in those locations. While the government-media complex is blaming Disneyland, real disease control specialists should be tracking these unchecked invaders.

    The unintended consequences of the illegal alien invasion are all around us but it is politically incorrect to mention it. Police pull over illegals with no registrations or licenses and let them go where if it was a citizen we would be fined or arrested. Illegals kill people with cars and guns, sometimes are convicted and Obama lets them go! 30,000 illegals released last year of whom over 1,000 then committed more crimes, rapes and murders.

    Even worse, the President breaks his oath again by gutting enforcement of the current immigration law by not pursuing and fining businesses who hire these people against the backdrop of Americans who can’t find a job. Don’t tell me these are jobs Americans don’t want when teenage unemployment is over 12%.

    Recently, the Center for Security Policy released a report showing the Obama Administration worked secretly over the past few years ILLEGALLY granting work permits to illegal aliens and other people holding visas against the limits set by law. Only a FOIA request pursued for years against this “transparent” government revealed this breach of our contract with him and show him for the criminal he is.

    I understand the untouchability of this president because he is bi-racial. That has given him carte blanche to impose his socialist ideology and destroy this country from the inside.

  17. No matter what topic you introduce, FT, it's doomed to spark acrimony,Tiresome, isn't it?

    ------------------------> Katharine Heartburn

  18. Smallpox vaccines are no longer given. If I'm not mistaken, smallpox is back again -- this time in Pakistan. It's only a matter of time before there is a smallpox outbreak in the West, IMO.

    1. YUP! And guess who we have to thank for THAT higher degree of vulnerability?

      Wilbur and Orville Wright!!! ;-)

  19. Babies are SUPPOSED TO STAY in the nest:

    Five Infants From Palatine Daycare Center Diagnosed With Measles

    ...All five of the children are less than a year old, including four from the suburbs, and one from Chicago. Lab tests have confirmed measles cases in two of the children; the other three have been tentatively diagnosed with measles, but doctors were waiting for lab tests to confirm it.

    All of the children are reported to be at home and doing OK.

    “Individuals who are under the age of one or with certain clinical conditions cannot be vaccinated...

    1. I just took that comment and made it a blog post at my site. **wink**

    2. Tell that to the Feminzazis.

      The emphasis on MATERIALISM above all else has produced "working mothers," because we've been led to believe that we aren't fully human unless we have at least two cars, a bathroom for each bedroom, closets as big as the Grand Ballroom at the Waldforf Astoria, automatic dishwashers, washing machines, clothes dryers, granite countertops, hand-crafted kitchen cabinets made of Brazilian Cherry, hardwood floors, the latest hi-fi-stereo equipment, a TV in every room, a computer with internet access, Netflix, Hulu, Kindles, laptops, and "smartphones," etc.

      Mothers are no longer mothers. They are just "breeders," who turn their infants over to the care of total strangers in less-than-ideal circumstances, etc.

      And we wonder why alcohol and drug addiction are up, divorce rates are sky high, illegitimate births are at an all-time high, and everyone is so angry, lonely, bitter, and discontented!

      We seem to have completely forgotten that "Man does not live by bread alone ..."

      In the mad race for more and more "bread," we have hardened our hearts and lost our souls.

      In attempting to live without God (Love, Truth, Principle, Spirit, Intelligence) we have cut ourselves off from the most important aspects of being human, and are rapidly regressing to a pitiable state of savagery.

      The recent article illustrating the excesses of madness foolish rich women will go to in a desperate attempt to deny the advances of age provide a dramatic example of how perverted, degraded and demented we have become as a result of nearly complete neglect of spiritual needs and values coupled with a desperate over-emphasis on all the wrong things.

      "Seek ye FIRST the Kingdom of God and His righteousness" -- and everything else you truly need will come to you."

    3. FT,
      The emphasis on MATERIALISM above all else has produced "working mothers"...

      And I must add the virtual forcing of wives to work so as to pay the real estate taxes. Local governments set the values and the tax rates. You know what I mean. It can be difficult for young couples to get started. Worse, so many young couples expect to start their lives together in a certain style -- the greed-and-status factor.

      My mother continued to work after I was born because she had but a few short years to a federal pension. I couldn't drink breast milk -- hers or anyone else's.

      However, she didn't farm me out to a place with a lot of other babies. Instead, during the workday months after I came into the world, she put me with her sister-in-law's mother, so I was "in a nest." Later, we had live-in maids (nannies).

      Furthermore, my parents didn't drag me out while I was an infant. They stayed home!

      I stand by what I said: "Babies are supposed to stay in the nest."

    4. I said nothing that denied your premise, AOW. If anything I sought to bolster it.

      As a vast collection of INDIVIDUALS -- each unique -- the last thing we need is STANDARDIZATION imposed by CENTRAL AUTHORITY.

      The phenomenon of ever increasing property taxes, access fees, and strangling regulation of the uses taxpaying owners may make of PRIVATE property is an important subject and should be discussed in depth on any number of occasions in the future.

    5. FT,
      I said nothing that denied your premise, AOW. If anything I sought to bolster it.


      The governments (federal, state, and local) full well know that wives in the workforce help to fund the treasury. The children are the losers in all this!

      Furthermore, the Feminazis are enslaved and don't realize it. Madness rules the day.


    6. " ... the Feminazis are enslaved and don't realize it. Madness rules the day."

      "Twould certainly appear so on both counts.



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