THE DOW JONES
INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE
As of Wednesday, 10/13/14, 4:30 PM
16321.07 -223.03 (-1.35%)
Open: 16, 535.43
Low: 16, 310.67
Volume: 107, 830, 340 shares traded
After having had a banner year reaching record highs of well over 17, 500, the DJIA has been in retreat for most of the past month wiping out the year’s gains in a few short weeks.
“I’m not rich,” you say, “why should I care? I have no sympathy for the rich. I work for a living. Investing is a rich man’s game. How could this effect me?”
We here at FreeThinke’s blog are hoping for a variety of answers that might help others to understand why and how the market matters.
Like it or not, we are are all in this together. If the market fails, it produces a chain reaction that effects everyone. If the rich are faced with sudden poverty, the rest of us will soon be destitute.
What are your thoughts?
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IRRELEVANT REMARKS, BOILERPLATE, PERSONAL REMARKS, and EVIDENCE of BLOG FEUDS, POISONOUS GOSSIP, IDIOCY and ILL WILL WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.
Both Mr. AOW and I have small IRA's invested in the stock market. **sigh**
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If the market continues to drop, what will happen to all those funds invested for people's children's college funds? Tuition fees continue to soar, and students will be forced to take on a huge debt load if their parents' funds won't cover the cost of higher education.
We weathered the 2007-2008 market dislocation. More likely than not we'll pull through this one as well. But it is nerve racking for sure.
ReplyDeleteThanks Mr. Obama, you really fixed the economy!
ReplyDeleteWhat would we have done without you?
CAN YOU IMAGINE IF A REPUBLICAN DID THIS?
ReplyDeleteThe one thing the incompetent incumbent has accomplished is to do nothing about the economy. This has kept interest rates low and market the only place to put money. This has caused the market to do quite well.
ReplyDeleteThe people he ostracizes the most, rich, successful, big business, he has done quite well by.
The poor with increased welfare rolls, small business with increase in regulations, taxes and obummercare, and the middle class going from full time to part time have been punished.
A drop in the market will spoil his one accomplishment.
As to playing golf, everyone deserves some time off. He goes seven days a week and needs to rest between fund raisers. Can you just imagine having to sit thru all those 25k a plate dinners, and blaming all your failures on someone else, must be exhausting.
It's the only game in town. And its' rigged so that the "House" always wins. The "degree" to which you will play is the imaginary "choice" you are offered. Only its' no choice at all.
ReplyDelete"Why" the market "matters"
ReplyDeleteSlavoj Zizek, "The Revolt of the Salaried Bourgeoisie"
The evaluative procedure used to decide which workers receive a surplus wage is an arbitrary mechanism of power and ideology, with no serious link to actual competence; the surplus wage exists not for economic but for political reasons: to maintain a ‘middle class’ for the purpose of social stability. The arbitrariness of social hierarchy is not a mistake, but the whole point, with the arbitrariness of evaluation playing an analogous role to the arbitrariness of market success. Violence threatens to explode not when there is too much contingency in the social space, but when one tries to eliminate contingency. In La Marque du sacré, Jean-Pierre Dupuy conceives hierarchy as one of four procedures (‘dispositifs symboliques’) whose function is to make the relationship of superiority non-humiliating: hierarchy itself (an externally imposed order that allows me to experience my lower social status as independent of my inherent value); demystification (the ideological procedure which demonstrates that society is not a meritocracy but the product of objective social struggles, enabling me to avoid the painful conclusion that someone else’s superiority is the result of his merit and achievements); contingency (a similar mechanism, by which we come to understand that our position on the social scale depends on a natural and social lottery; the lucky ones are those born with the right genes in rich families); and complexity (uncontrollable forces have unpredictable consequences; for instance, the invisible hand of the market may lead to my failure and my neighbour’s success, even if I work much harder and am much more intelligent). Contrary to appearances, these mechanisms don’t contest or threaten hierarchy, but make it palatable, since ‘what triggers the turmoil of envy is the idea that the other deserves his good luck and not the opposite idea – which is the only one that can be openly expressed.’ Dupuy draws from this premise the conclusion that it is a great mistake to think that a reasonably just society which also perceives itself as just will be free of resentment: on the contrary, it is in such societies that those who occupy inferior positions will find an outlet for their hurt pride in violent outbursts of resentment.
If the market fails, it produces a chain reaction that effects everyone.
ReplyDeleteSure. Like in 2008, when "Main Street" bailed out "Wall Street".
Always remember - "Privitize gains, Socialize losses1"
The ultra smart set makes money whether the market goes up or goes down. Traditionally the advice is to "buy low and sell high" but the opposite applies equally —"sell high and buy low". It's a matter of looking for signs when markets are either over bought or over sold.
ReplyDeleteDoes a rising Dow Jones average mean all is well with the world? Not necessarily so. Since the thirty stocks comprising that average only represent a small slice of the economic picture of the larger universe of companies operating in a country, the feeling of euphoria experienced by a rising Dow Jones average may or may not be true and especially not likely for most and definitely not all.
The biggest irony of all is the center of attraction for almost every pundit is the total focus on THE FED. A country that has handed over its economic sovereignty to a group of private bankers who readily admit that the head of the FED is more powerful than the President, is definitely not a free country, but rather an economic slave to that esoteric group. And all taxpayers are shackled by their chains to the whims of the elite group that prints the currency at the request of the government in ridiculous amounts destroying the purchasing power of the currency as time passes. From its inception the FED has destroyed the value of the currency to an extent that today's purchasing power of the dollar is merely three or four cents of its value in 1913.
The tragedy is that nobody recognizes this. Attention is always diverted by the loudest voices to the crisis du jour that captivates the short term focus of the moment.
Banks should thus also count as privatized commons: insofar as private banks control the flow of investments and thus represent, for individual companies, the universal dimension of social capital, their profit is really a rent we pay for their role as universal mediator. This is why state or other forms of social control over banks and collective capital in general (like pension funds) are crucial in taking a first step towards the social control of commons.
ReplyDelete-Slavoj Zizek, "Less than Nothing"
And are the stock-brokers not like the bankers, controlling "access" to the sources of capital in the public commons?
There is no "ultra-smart" set. There are merely those "gatekeepers" whith the POWER to control "access" to the "commons", and charge us "rent" for the privilege of buying AND selling stock (E-trades $9.99 commission on both ends of a trade).
The only difference between the stock market and a state-licensed casino is the game being played.
ReplyDeleteWin-Lose-Draw, it matters not, the "House" always gets it "cut".
"Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry."
ReplyDeletePerhaps some good "progressive" can tell my why it's okay for the "State" to operate a Ponzi-scheme like Social Security, but illegal for me to run one?
ReplyDeleteThere aren't any "good" progressives
DeleteIt's all Bush's fault
ReplyDeleteAnd are the stock-brokers not like the bankers, controlling "access" to the sources of capital in the public commons?
ReplyDelete---
Not so much. Since the "market" under discussion here is the "secondary" market, the market in publicly traded shares after the initial public offering of the companies stocks.
I don't have a problem with paying the cost of a service that I've used whether it's $9.99 or whatever.
If you don't want to play then simply don't play.
Not so much? Try trading a stock w/o using a broker's "services".
ReplyDelete... controlling "access" to the sources of capital in the public commons?
ReplyDelete---Access to capital comes with the IPO when the company first lists its shares on the market.
Those that buy and sell stocks in the market after the original IPO aren't "accessing capital" and neither are the companies. They only trade in paper representing some perceived value in that paper which has been issued by the company.
I don't see any reason to complain about the cost of a service you have used, and you are free to shop around for a better price or not to participate in the market.
You've got a problem with THAT?
Unfortunately, we have a President who not only thinks but has actually said that CLIMATE CHANGE is the greatest challenge facing the Earth. And our own Secretary of State said that this was absurd.
ReplyDeleteOnce again this President has done everything in his power to destroy the nation’s economy and more proof that this is part of that agenda! And we have MORE proof that these climate change lies that Obama keeps repeating and repeating are more than just obscene, they are as wacky as saying that the Moon is made out of cheese. And this is who we have in charge of the Ebola situation! What does it tell you when we see this dreaded decease getting worse and worse in the United States! Well, keep bringing in those flights from Africa, that’ll help!
At least it will help the Unemployed health care workers, morticians, and grave diggers, who have been out of work!
And lets not forget that our dear leader, President Ebola is the President who gave us the invasion of thousands illegal immigrant children from Mexico and Latin America and then put them to various states without informing their governors or other authorities of who and where they were. Not surprising why we have been having all these cases of TB and this enterovirus respiratory disease affecting our children have been reported around the nation, and in many cases Killing them.
By the guys Our Dear Leader Comrade Do Nothingis at it again.
ReplyDeleteDow Jones- down 350 points at 9:35 AM
How do you like them rotten apples?
Dow Jones- down 350 points at 9:35 AM
ReplyDeleteGuess confidence is down again.
Cyclical, temperamental, and fickle. Such is the market in a quasi-free market.
Of course a completely unregulated market is definitely good for the investors and captains of finance and industry.
Until it collapses on itself. Something I believe I once heard about inverted pyramids. Or something like that.
Markets usually bounce back following their corrections. n the meantime everybody will have to tighten their belt buckle.
Besides, only two more years. right?
You've got a problem with THAT
ReplyDeleteThat you've granted a pay-for-service monopoly to the traders and rigged it so that my next door neighbor and I can't buy/sell our own stock shares to each other? We can trade our guns, we can trade our gold, but not our investment paper. THANKS Waylon...
Dow down 300+ points?
ReplyDeleteHave fun with that Lib,s another Obama Accomplishment?
Make that OVER 400 points
ReplyDeleteDef not good for our 401k's
ReplyDeleteyou know what I miss? When Bush was president,the unemployment was at about 4.5% and the stock Market was just over 14.
The left wing media went out searching for people who were not doing so well and touted them out as the example for the rest of us,when the rest of us were actually doing pretty well.
Now there are so many people not doing well an boarded up businesses everywhere but the media JUST can't seem to find those people anymore. OY!
To put it mildly, October has been a been scary month for the stock-Market, but I’d say that today was the scariest day that I’ve ever seen yet. .
ReplyDeleteThe Dow -Jones average plummeted as much as 460 points, the most that Ican ever remember in all my years of being in the market. Even the Nasdaq fell the lowest that I’ve ever seem it fall before.
It got so ugly that I expected to see people jumping off the roofs, It all but wiped out all the gains for 2014 . Even the S&P 500 and the Nasdaq are close to zero or negative now.. Thank Mr. Obama for opening up his big mouth again. Who knows what he’ll say tomorrow. I just hope that he plays golf all day....AGAIN
Cockroach Rational Nation USA said... To put it mildly, October has been a been scary month for the stock-Market, but I’d say that today was the scariest day that I’ve ever seen yet.
ReplyDeleteRemember Black Friday back in the Reagan years wen the Dow plunged over 500 points in a single day?
The Dow -Jones average plummeted as much as 460 points, the most that Ican ever remember in all my years of being in the market. Even the Nasdaq fell the lowest that I’ve ever seem it fall before.
The Troll with no memory or experience in the market sayeth.
It got so ugly that I expected to see people jumping off the roofs, It all but wiped out all the gains for 2014 . Even the S&P 500 and the Nasdaq are close to zero or negative now.. Thank Mr. Obama for opening up his big mouth again. Who knows what he’ll say tomorrow. I just hope that he plays golf all day....AGAIN
Has anyone ever advised this individual whoever he/she may be that the forces at play in the market and the global economy are far greater than the powers of one individual man?
BTW, the DOW closed down 173.45. Relax, the market s functioning as it has forever.
I appreciate all the thoughtful remarks. I agree that the market is behaving as markets are bound to do periodically. No one enjoys these downdrafts. Usually they don't last very long -- if legislators don't step in to grab more power made possible by panic among the ninnies and the faint-hearted -- but if these 'corrections" are prolonged for months they become "recessions," -- if years pass, as was the case following the crash of 1929 -- we lapse into DEPRESSION, which is deadly for everyone including "the rich."
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion we are CONTINUING to BE in the longest RECESSION since the 1930's, even though -- because of excessive production of virtual counterfeit money by the FED -- the markets have been propped up and have APPEARED to do well, despite still VAST unemployment and record numbers on food stamps, etc.
Only those in the top 5-8% have made money these past six years, but that money woefully diminishes in purchasing power almost daily.
What good is a "dollar" that today only buys what less than 5¢ bought a hundred years ago?
The FED is a veritable INFLATION MACHINE, and along with the incessant pressure from unionists for working men and women to get paid more and more for producing less and less, has effectively wrecked the American Economy.
Even so, despite my portfolio's having lost nearly 10% of its value these past two weeks, I am right now arranging to assume the responsibility of buying a third house.
In the long run real estate usually proves to be a sound investment, and besides I'm providing a decent place for a deserving young friend to live who's had a long run of very bad luck including a lengthy, debilitating struggle with cancer. He's desperately eager to see his children grow up, and I'm privileged and grateful to be in a position where I might help make that possible.
If he lives, I'll have the satisfaction of knowing I've done something positive instead of just registering endless complaints about how awful everything is.
If he dies, I should be able easily to recoup my investment and possibly make a profit.
In this life there are no guarantees. If you never take any chances, you may possibly survive, but you'll never win any victories either, and very likely will never experience any joy.
At any rate, I go along with Thornton Wilder's famous character Dolly Levi who said, "Money is like manure. It needs to spread around helping young things to grow."
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ReplyDeleteBrace yourself, get ready, there's much more BAD news to come. The futures point to a 125 point opening. And then, well who knows!
ReplyDeleteLike they said months ago, it's not a question If the market will get murdered, it was only a question of when!
That is a 125 point DROP, in the opening.
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