Friday, September 22, 2017


GET RID OF ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS INCLUDING THE DREAMERS?

Two Differing Points of View

YES!

Welcome one of your newest fellow citizens. Let's say just for the sake of discussion that this is a hypothetical scenario: 

46 year old woman. Gets pregnant. No father listed on birth certificate. Unemployed, gets no prenatal care, presents to hospital in labor, baby born slightly premature and very small size. Has Down syndrome. Has significant medical abnormalities. Will probably be hospitalized for weeks to months in intensive care. May need major surgery. Mother speaks not a word of English. Immigration status? Who knows, not allowed to ask. Mom on Medicaid. Baby on Medicaid.

Where is the responsibility of this woman who is old enough to know better? Where is the responsibility of the father who gets his pleasure with no skin in the game? Where is the responsibility of this mother's nation of origin who outsourced her dependency onto us? Where is the concern from our politicians for the taxpayers, the hardworking citizens of this country who are going to pay for this child's medical care for years to come? Where is a simple thank you America, for being kind hearted and generous. But no, the Dreamers have a dream. Fuck the taxpayer and his/her dreams. F-ck the future of the taxpayer's child and his/her dreams. This woman and her child are entitled to the sweat of your brow, comrade!




NO!


YEAH YEAH YEAH, but you've taken the worst case scenario, exaggerated it, and then presented it as the NORM for ALL the so-called Dreamers.

Not only is that not KIND and not FAIR, it's not TRUE either.

There really ARE a great many brought here as infants and underrage children who have graduated from our schools, and lived their entire lives AS Americans.

Some of them have served in the Armed Forces with honor and distinction; many have gone to college, graduated and have found a niche for themselves as full-fledged members of American Society.

Many of them have married Americans, and had children whom they are raising in an admirable fashion. Many of them have bought property, and do their best to maintain it and enhance its value.




It's a moral OUTRAGE even to CONSIDER deporting people of good quality. Many of them are better behaved, have better values, and lead more productive lives the many "Natural Born" citizens hundreds of thousands of whom really are worthless and despicable.

That said, I would like to see any and all illegal aliens who've committed CRIMES tossed out immediately with no ceremony, and I firmly believe 

WE MUST SEAL the BORDER NOW  

so that no more of these poor lost souls are physically able to pour in, and eventually overrun us.




The whole rotten, stinking mess is OUR fault for not electing and supporting a government that has the GUTS, the WILL 
and the HEART to do the Right, 
Decent and Sensible thing.



89 comments:

  1. If Government won't enforce the Law, what IS it good for?

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    Replies
    1. When "The Law" fails to serve humanitarian interests, it is ipso facto a BAD law, and must by thoughtful men of good heart and conscience be firmly and vigorously DISOBEYED.

      If this were not so, how else coould we have gotten Magna Carta and the Declaration of Independence?

      However, when reblliousness goes too far, –– as it did in the French an,d Russian Revolutions for instance ––, it too fails to serve humanitarian purposes and therefore, becomes profoundly evil.

      DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU.

      "Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy ..."

      SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS!

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    2. Regarding The Law: Let's face it. We are a nation of men and women, not of laws. The Rule of Law is dead. Any legal system is only as good as the men and women who control it, and we are ruled by a corrupt class.

      How the law bears upon you depends upon who you are. Manafort's corrupt ass is in a sling, but the Podesta's--who were dealing with the Russians during the election--are laughing all the way to the bank.

      Presidents violate the law all the time, as do corporations, but don't try this at home, kids! They'll slam your ass in jail.

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    3. Of course! So what? THEORY may be idealistic, but PRACTICE is –– and always has been –– something else.

      I believe it's downright NAIVE to think otherwise.

      It may be regrettable, but sooner or later everythng that matters gets reduced to the level of a GAME.

      Only we –– as INDIVIDUALS –– have the opportunity to "play it straight," and how well does that work out when our LIVELIHOOD is threatened –– especially when we have minor children in need of our protection.

      The Devil knows full well we human beings have little or no taste for martyrdom, and frankly I don't believe even GOD expects that level of sacrifice from us.

      The only way to deal with Reality is to take our heads down from the clouds and face the exigencies of –– well –– REALITY. ;-)

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  2. Nietzsche, "Genealogy of Morals, Essay II"

    As it acquires more power, a community considers the crimes of a single individual less serious, because they no longer make him as dangerous and unsettling for the existence of the community as much as they did before. The wrong doer is no longer "left without peace" and thrown out, and the common anger can no longer vent itself on him without restraint to the same extent it did before. It is rather the case that the wrong doer from now on is carefully protected by the community against this anger, particularly from that of the injured person, and is taken into protective custody. The compromise with the anger of those most immediately affected by the wrong doing, and thus the effort to localize the case and to avert a wider or even a general participation and unrest, attempts to find equivalents and to settle the whole business (the compositio), above all the desire, appearing with ever-increasing clarity, to consider every crime as, in some sense or other, capable of being paid off, and thus, at least to some extent, to separate the criminal and his crime from each other—those are the characteristics stamped more and more clearly on the further development of criminal law.

    If the power and the self-confidence of a community keeps growing, the criminal law grows constantly milder. Every weakening and profound jeopardizing of the community brings the harsher forms of criminal law to light once more. The "creditor" always became proportionally more human as he became richer. Finally the amount of his wealth itself establishes how much damage he can sustain without suffering from it. It would not be impossible to imagine a society with a consciousness of its own power which allowed itself the most privileged luxury which it can have—letting its criminals go free without punishment. "Why should I really bother about my parasites," it would then say. "May they live and prosper—for that I am still sufficiently strong!" . . . Justice, which started by stating "Everything is capable of being paid for, everything must be paid off" ends at that point, by covering its eyes and letting the person incapable of payment go free—it ends, as every good thing on earth ends, by doing away with itself. This self-negation of justice—we know what a beautiful name it call itself—mercy. It goes without saying that mercy remains the privilege of the most powerful man, or even better, his movement beyond the law.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Absolutely EVERYTHING depends on how we define "WRONGDOING."

      The Letter of the Law v. the Spirit of the Law

      The legalistic approach is often reflexive, simplistic, entirely too facile, very shallow,and ultimately inhumane.

      Justice untempered by Mercy is not Justice at all. It is merely ARBITRARY and too often DESPOTIC.

      If yiu doubt me, think how LEFTISTS have CRIMINALIZED such things as complmenting a woman on her appearance–– or daring to express doubt of the validity of any of THEIR pet concerns and legislative initiatives.

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    2. If I don't receive the "spirit" of the law, actual borders, then I MUST depend upon the "letters", and there is no"mercy" within them. If I can't depend upon either, the then there is no law worthy of the name.

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    3. Please don't blame the VICTIMS, blame the PEPETRATORS.

      WE are the perpetrators, because WE have been careless, lazy, stupid and fearfully dishonest.

      The way to clean up this stinking mess will NOT be found in trying to correct the errors WE made in the past, but to make sure we do not keep on REPEATING them ad nauseam, as we have been doing fpr decades upon decades.

      STOP PLAYING GAMES.

      TURN OFF the TAP

      SEAL the BORDER

      BUILD the WALL.

      D---O ____ I---T ____ N---O---W ____!

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    4. “Ending is better than mending.”
      ― Aldous Huxley, Brave New World

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    5. That sounds s though you are eager to Immanentize the Escheaton?

      Is that so?

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    6. As I said at AoWs: Flectere si nequeo superos Acheronta movebo! - Virgil, "Aeneid"

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    7. It would help immeasurably, Beanie, if you spoke more plainly, directly and less cryptically.

      Few-if-any of us are Latin Scholars. MOST rarely-if-ever even bother to read short statements made in ENGLISH, asI have found to my sorrow.

      IF we want to COMMUNICATE and not merely spout our point of view to "hear urselves talk," we really ought to make more of an effort to be DIRECT as well as CONSIDERATE and WELL-MANNERED –– not that YOU are lacking in consideration. [I am forever trying to speak to the General Public here, even when I respond to a specfic individual.]

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    8. "If you can't move Heaven, try raising Hell!"

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    9. Beantown has made himself quite clear, as was your clarifying question asking if he were attempting to Immanentize the eschaton. Nice touch, btw!

      The closer man's justice approaches God's Justice, the better it is for society. Blackstone states this in so many words in his Commentaries.

      Chapter I, Section VIII of Everyman's Talmud (page 57 of 442 for those who wish to go read the short section) gives a brief sketch of Rabbinical teachings on God's Mercy and God Justice, struggling to understand how he pulls it off.

      Of course, Being God, he balances the two apparently opposing concepts perfectly, being God, but man struggles with the insuperable dichotomy.

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    10. re: communication... Immanentize the Escheaton?

      Perhaps next time you could say what you mean as well. :)

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    11. A honest display of ERUDITION is in no way the same as a display of DELIBERATE OBFUSCATION.

      };^)>

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    12. The problem of DACA is entirely a problem arising from the non-enforcement of immigration law. The "solution" being proposed is to simply legalizeand normalize a continued non-enforcement. To this proposed "solution" I say, "abolish government!". It's entirely ineffective.

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    13. "RAISING HELL" could never under any circumstances be considered a good idea, could it?

      If you think so, please elucidate.

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    14. Raise from the "underground" in which it is hidden, and move it closer to the light, where it is not. "Lucifer" should NOT be the only one with a torch.

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    15. ...as DACA reveals only a small minority aspect of the non-enforcement problem and attempts to contextualize the solution.

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    16. A "nation" just like any term, is defined by its limits. If we do not enforce these limits/borders, then we no longer HAVE a nation.

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  3. Get them ALL the heck out and send them home

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    Replies
    1. Dorabella Fiordiligi said

      This is their home. The dreamers have never known any other home. That's the point.

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    2. Barn Doors and Horses!

      It's TOO LATE. it CAN'T be DONE any more than we could return floodwaters to their place of origin, but we COULD CLOSE the BORDER., whether by building an actual "WALL" or by any number of other means largely technological.

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  4. A nuanced position, such as yours, FreeThinke is very rare in this noisy riot of liars and screamers.

    People brought here by adults did nothing wrong, de jure. You cannot charge minors for the actions of their parents, just as minors cannot enter into contracts.

    The other side of this argument is illustrated by the analogy of parents who find an uninhabited house and move their family into it.

    When the occupants return, do we just give the house to the invaders? What if the children cry and insist this is the only home they have ever known?

    How about a criminal father, discovered, carted off to jail, and all the ill-gotten gain confiscated, leaving his wife and children impoverished, even their house taken from them.

    Is this fair? It happens.

    I can't speak for other, but what chaps my ass is activist groups lecturing me, shouting me down, and calling me racist for even wanting to debate the issue.

    I agree with you that this is primarily our government's fault: they left the door open and people took advantage.

    I don't like the fact that people here illegally march, name-call and make demands. Particularly disgusting are those who call themselves "Americans," and then lecture me about American values.


    I also realize leftwing activists have hijacked this issue and are using it as a wedge. For that reason alone, I now lean strongly towards sending them back, or cutting off all aid and programs to the point where they self-deport.

    Mexico is not a hell-hole. Sending someone back there is not a death sentence. If I can learn Spanish, a Mexican who grew up in the US can as well.

    All of Central America is not eaten up by crime and gangs. There are many alternatives besides just letting everybody squat here.

    If our government had secure borders, credible enforcement, 100% job verification with sever criminal sanctions for companies who violate the law, could track who comes and goes, and summarily toss out violators...

    ...the path would be smooth and wide for normalizing those law-abiding productive illegal immigrants.

    My bottom line? Normalize them*; but President Trump better get some concrete immigration enforcement reform, or he can kiss my ass (and my vote) goodbye.

    *- Even citizenship for the DACAs won't end it. Next, they will agitate for no internal enforcement, citizenship for all relatives of the DACAs, and ultimately, citizenship for all here illegally.

    Anyone who doesn't think that's the agenda has his head up his ass.

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    Replies
    1. We are not MUCH in disgreement, Silver, despite the radically different tone of our respective arguments. [I'm referring more to your remarks at Always On Watch than what yu've said here today.]

      If I did not agree with your basic premise, why would I have ended my ariticle with these words?

      "I would like to see any and all illegal aliens who've committed CRIMES tossed out immediately with no ceremony, and I firmly believe

      WE ____ MUST____ SEAL ____ the ____ BORDER ____ N –– O –– W.

      so that no more of these poor lost souls are physically able to pour into our country willy nilly, and eventually overrun us.

      Your point about the suffering of wives and children when a husband and father has committed a crime and gets carted off to prison levng his family destitute is one that has crossed my mind often since I was TEN years old.

      I've never found a satrisfactory answer there, but that very issue did more to form my adamant position as a person who greatly favors COMPENSATION for the VICTIMS of CRIME over PUNISHMENT for the PERPETRATORS.

      Causing needless suffering to innocent victims of circumstance could NOT possibly be the fair and decent way to correct any bad situation –– but especially one that's largely of OUR making.

      Drafting legislation that TURNS OFF the SPIGOT and repels further "invasion" WOULD be the appropriate thing to do. If we FAIL
      in that regard, we DESERVE every bad thing that comes our way in future.


      Cynically exploiting human suffering –– from any and all points of view on the political spectrum –– to gain personal advantage or strengthen political power –– is frankly monstrous.

      I understand your point about breaking into and inhabiting someone else's house in their absence perfectly, but the United States is a COUNTRY not a private HOUSE. In many instances these illegal aliens, who are suddenly troubling us so greatly after being here in increasung numbers for DECADES in many instances, have, as I said, labored honestly, earnestly, and gratefully at demandung jobs, –– started and run successful busunesses of ther own, –– bought property, –– married America citizens, –– produced children, etc., etc., etc. They are too all intents and purposes –– if one looks at the statuation HONESTLY –– de facto American citizens.

      Put simplistically: "Two wrongs never have and never will make a right."

      Our PRIMARY order of business right now should be to TURN OFF THE TAP.

      B-U-I-L-D ____ T-H-A-T ____ W-A-L-L ____ !

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    2. It is a difficult situation, but a refreshing start to addressing it would include the following:

      - Illegal immigrants admitting it is the fault of those adults who came here illegally and brought children with them.

      - Illegal immigrants apologizing for what they have done and showing some F*---ING GRATITUDE to this nation and its citizens.

      At this point, I don't care. I would just as soon cut them loose and have them deport themselves, if nothing else, than to show people that joining up with leftwing agitators will end badly for you.

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    3. I'm going out on a limb here and making some predictions:

      1. Regardless, we will continue to have illegal immigrants living here, in the open, working, voting and receiving government assistance. They have already become one more tribe, and there is no way to end or change that, because you cannot deport tens of millions of people, and yes it is well north of 20 millions.

      2. "The Wall" is bullshit campaign rhetoric and will never be built.

      3. People will continue to come here illegally, increasingly from other parts of the world. We're too rich a target, our doors are wide open, and our government is stupid and incompetent.

      4. Congress will never pass meaningful immigration reform. Too many powerful interests make too much money on abusing illegal immigrant labor.

      Like the corrupt Arab world needs the Palestinians to stay poor, stupid and oppressed for propaganda purposes, so the left needs poor immigrant victims to paint rightwing white nationalism in high relief.

      I'm not cynical; I'm jaded.

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    4. All right, OZYMANDIAS. You may be correct, but I prefer to hope not.

      At any rate, what we have no power to control should not properly concern us, anyway.

      We'd be better off to enjoy whatever time we may have left to live doing whagt we believe to be worthwhile in relative peace and comfort, relax and left GOD do the heavy lifting.

      He will anyway.

      I'm sure you know that.

      Let nothing disturb thee,
      Nothing affright thee.
      All things are passing.
      Patient endurance
      Attaineth to all things.
      Whom God possesseth
      In nothing is lacking.
      Alone God sufficeth.


      ~ St. Teresa of Avila - lines from her breviary, as transalted by H. W. Longfellow

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    5. I'm not one of those who think the destruction of the US is imminent. It's just going to be different, that's all.

      As the left inevitably gets their way, the nation will become poorer and more fragmented. Life ain't so bad in Argentina. Ever been Buenos Aires?

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    6. You have just described more than adequately the absolute DESTRUCTION of the USA –– as she was FOUNDED.

      Killing a SPIRIT is a far worse offense than the physical elimination of a BODY.

      Why?

      Because the SPIRIT is what DEFINES, CHARACTERIZES and ANIMATES a body.

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    7. But if the outfit no longer fits the people, they change it. That is what is happening.

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    8. Oh sure! hat is why what-the-Left-insists-on-calling "RACISM" is in reality an EXCELLENT idea ––– IF one wants to preserve, maintain and enhance one's ethnic heritage, unique culture, and religious traditions.

      I suspect God has Other Ideas, so maybe what we don't like is actually what we really NEED?

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    9. As a people changes, so does the nation. We may not like how it is changing, but here we are.

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  5. There are 7 billion hard-luck stories in the windy city. I, for one, feel no obligation to "remedy" them.

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    Replies
    1. That, I'm afraid, is entirely your problem, FJ –– a matter that could only be settled between you and your conscience.

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    2. My conscience is clear! DEPORT THEM NOW!

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    3. A man who won't tend to his garden will soon lose it to weeds.

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    4. Tallulah Tabascowitz said

      My garden would look like one helluva mess if it weren't for the team of Hispanics who tend it. I pay them wel, and have no idea whether they are legal or not, and frankly don't give a damn. I think "Don't ask. Don't tell" is the best way to deal with all of these situations.

      The world would be a lot better off without all the goddam busybodies who do nothing but make trouble for others, and think they're being righteous. I say nuts to that.

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    5. Sure, why arrest murders and rapists? Damn busybodies!

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    6. Give me back MY sovereignty, and I'll be happy to simply tend my OWN garden. Note the priapus at the gate where you enter.

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    7. Non rudis indocta fecit me falce colonus:
      Dispensatoris nobile cernis opus.
      Nam Caeretani cultor ditissimus agri
      Hos Hilarus colles et iuga laeta tenet.
      Adspice, quam certo videar non ligneus ore,
      Nec devota focis inguinis arma geram:
      Sed mihi perpetua nunquam moritura cupresso
      Phidiaci rigeat mentala digna manu.
      Vicini, moneo, sanctum celebrate Priapum,
      Et bis septenis parcite iugeribus.


      -Martial

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    8. Ne Priapus ne myghte nat suffise,
      Though he be God of gardyns, for to telle
      The beautee of the gardyn and the welle,
      That stood under a laurer alwey grene.[22]

      (Priapus might not suffice,
      Though he be god of gardens, to tell
      Of the beauty of the garden and the well
      That stood under the laurel, always green.)


      - Chaucer

      Delete
  6. We also must realize illegal immigrants are far from a poor, disempowered group.

    The march and protest openly in our streets.

    They get invited to political events by national politicians, including to the US Capitol.

    They have armies of lawyers, raise millions of dollars, and produce nationwide tv and radio commercials.

    Does that sound like oppressed people in hiding?

    I really hate those "Dreamer" commercials. They are nothing but Pathos-sodden propaganda that alternately feature children tugging at your heartstrings and then adult DACA professionals and college students lecturing us on what it means to be an American.

    I don't know about you, but it backfired on me.

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  7. I think you are angry at the cynical Master Baiters, Manipulators, Propagandists and demonic Mischiefmakers who hypocritically EXPLOIT this heart-rending situation for THEIR venal, self-aggrandizing purposes.

    If that is the case, we completely AGREE.

    Where we do NOT agree is on the destructive effects these machinations are bound to have on hundreds of thousands –– possibly millions –– of innocent lives, –– decent people working hard just trying to live in peace with no intent to harm anyone.

    "In so much as ye have done it unto the least of these, my brethren, so also have ye done it unto me."

    If we even want to PRETEND to be Christians, we should never, even for a moment, forget that.

    Your anger, I think, is thoroughly justified, Silver, but I believe it to be MISDIRECTED.

    I am thinking, of course, of the dear litte family I have informally adopted. Even at my advanced age, if any deportation should take place, I feel I would have no choice but to pull up stakes, sell everything, and relocate South of the Border to continue my relationship withl them. Even though I speak no Soanish, we have become more a true family than the tenuous relationship I have with my few surviving blood relatives.

    Such a move might kill me, and I don't WANT to do it, but I could no more stand aloof in the safety of my legal status as a natural-born American, and see those dear people maimed, torn apart, and cast in to The Pit than I could stand by and watch some rotten son of a bitch torture a kitten or a puppy.

    You see, at ROOT, despite –- or maybe because of –– my unswerving belief in Divine Principle, there are NO "statistics" there are ONLY individual PEOPLE just like me, therefore absolutely EVERYTHING is PERSONAL. Other than ART, which to me is sacred –– nothing REALLY matters except the way we conduct our personal, face-to-face transactions with others.

    The rest is so much flatulence as far as I'm concerned.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Of course I am angry at the "cynical Master Baiters, Manipulators, Propagandists and demonic Mischiefmakers who hypocritically EXPLOIT this heart-rending situation for THEIR venal, self-aggrandizing purposes"

      I am also angry at Repubes and Cons for completely bumbling this. They had many shots to be humane, fix this, and welcome the newcomers to the conservative world of work, family and minimal dependence on government.

      The left--thanks in part to Repube political malfeasance mentioned above--has radicalized this cohort, and those not radicalized will still be faithful Democrat voters, thanks in no small part to the pinheads and smug pricks on the right.

      So, its a big crap sandwich.

      Did you watch that video of them screaming at Pelosi? You don't think that shrieking bitch leading and her shouting cohort are going to be anything other than community agitators, do you?

      This was a fine post, FreeThinke, but at this point, I think our future path is already determined.

      The few posts I have scheduled at AOW's are more informational and ranting than searching for a solution.

      The Establishment will have its way, come hell or high water.

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    2. All right, but my nature has been quixotic since my conscious life began, and it's likely it shall remain so till The Next Phase –– whatever that may be.

      I can't imagine being here more than another five or six years, so I might be lucky and not have to experience the full horror of what you envision. I am concerned, however, for my little muchachos, now 7 and 5, –– and all people under the age of 55.

      Life has been wonderfully good to me. I would wish tha same blessing on everyone, but the future does not look good for the litte ones.

      Upward mobility –– the longed for ideal of my immigrant grandparents –– may very well be a thing of the past.

      But the words of St. Teresa (quoted above) still give me comfort as they have for more than fifty years.

      My friend Emily Dickinson, however, had great difficulty maintaining faith. Consequently, much of her life was filled with mental anguish. In a very dark moment she wrote the following:

      The heart asks Pleasure first ––
      And then excuse from Pain ––
      And then those little Anodynes
      That deaden Suffering.

      And then to go to Sleep
      And then –– if it should be –-
      The Wlll of its Inquisitor ––
      The liberty to die.


      ~ Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

      Even so, there was remarkable beauity and integrity in everything she wrote, probably because it was REAL. She never wrote for money or to please the masses. I'm almost certain she never realized that one day she'd be widely read, wondered at, marvelled at, puzzled over, and earnestly studied by millions.

      Despite all that, I still believe life can be what we CHOOSE to MAKE of it. Therefore, I CHOOSE to believe in GOD, because I know i could never have survived and prospered without His help and guidance.


      Thank your for engaging with me in considerable depth. I just can't tolerate quips, tau-nts, jibes, careless insults, canned rhetoric, talking points and frayed, tired old shibboleths that give no evidence of THOUGHT on the part of those who post them any longer.

      This was a pleasure.

      Thank you.

      Delete
    3. The Ghost of Ronald ReaganSeptember 22, 2017 at 5:51 PM

      This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    4. No cause to thank me. You set up the conversation piece nicely, and we all agree there are no easy answers.

      When Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, it opened their eyes, and as Satan promised, their "eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

      They did become like God in that one way, having their eyes opened, but as God promised, they surely did die.

      A children become adults a similar eye-opening must take place, as they will also someday die.

      For adults fully-immersed in the world and even with considerable experience, another level of eye-opening can happen. Sometimes it is forced on you


      For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
      --Ecclesiastes 1:18

      Or, simply stated, now that it's too late...

      Ignorance is Bliss

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    5. The Spirit of Free Choice and Righteous JudgmentSeptember 23, 2017 at 10:12 PM

      So, what all this boils down to is, drum roll, God wanted to keep humans blissfully ignorant and subservient. When they out of NATURAL curiosity disobeyed he, or maybe it is a she, punished them with ultimate death.

      WOW! The loving God who gave us all free will and then punished us for exercising it, regardless whether the individual was good and righteous.

      But we must not question this or ask how or why this is right. Me are just expected to accept, w/out question and be saved. Right...

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    6. That'a an extremely simple-minded interpretation, evidently uninformed by any investigation or attempts to understand the philosophy behind ancient texts.

      You go girl!

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    7. The Spirit of Free Choice and Righteous JudgmentSeptember 24, 2017 at 3:18 PM

      Not so. But if you believe so, well, oh well.

      Delete
    8. Well Les, since you don't believe in God, you have nothing to worry about.

      It cracks me up how people who profess no belief in a higher power expend so much energy on the subject.

      I don't believe in elves, and I spend very little time talking about them.

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    9. Les,

      Did you ever tell your children not to play in the street?

      Did you chain them to the house, or did you let them outside without restraint?

      Think about it.

      Delete
  8. Let's define "Dreamers":

    What is Daca?

    Daca is a federal government program created in 2012 under Barack Obama to allow people brought to the US illegally as children the temporary right to live, study and work in America. Those applying are vetted for any criminal history or threat to national security and must be students or have completed school or military service. If they pass vetting, action to deport them is deferred for two years, with a chance to renew, and they become eligible for basics like a driving license, college enrollment or a work permit.

    Who are the Dreamers?

    Those protected under Daca are known as “Dreamers” – by the time Trump announced his decision to rescind the program, 787,580 had been granted approval. To apply, they must have been younger than 31 on 15 June 2012, when the program began, and “undocumented”, lacking legal immigration status. They must have arrived in the US before turning 16 and lived there continuously since June 2007. Most Dreamers are from Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras and the largest numbers live in California, Texas, Florida and New York. They range in age from 15 to 36, according to the White House.


    Apparently, these "Dreamers" are not the vast majority of illegals living in our midst.

    FT,
    the dear litte family I have informally adopted

    Does that family you mention qualify as part of DACA? I mention that possibility because I fear that two separate issues might be conflated.

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    1. You've raised a question, AOW, that only serves to show how fearfully complicated this problem really is –– and how pathetically shallow , mean-spirited, inadequate and frankly stupid proposals made to deal with it have been thus far.

      The answer to your question is NO, but in tnis case we have two little boys, 5 and 7, who are American citizens, but whose parents are not. So from the legalistic standpoint THEIR situation has nothing to do with DACA, which was as inadequate, stupid and short-sighted as any policy yet devised.

      I don't suppot "DACA" or an OTHER moronic government expedient. However, I DO support anything that favors COMMON SENSE abd HUMAN DECENCY.

      IF we want to bring the stituation to a sensible, equitable resolution that satisfies Christian standards of mprality and decency, THREE things should be done in the following order:

      1. CLOSE the BORDER

      2. EXPEL any and all Illegal Aliens who have committed CRIMES, and make theur expulsiin ABSOLUTE and PERMANENT.

      3. CONFER citizenship on ALL Illegal Aliens who speak ENGLISH, have lived here INDEPENDENTLY, supported themselves adequately, NOT been on WELFARE, who have lived as de facto American citizens for more tan five years.


      The basis of m proposal, of course, is the adominition to SEAL the BORDER FIRST and FOREMOST before any other action is taken.

      And YES –– in case some prim, purse-lipped idividual preoccupied legalistic considerations from either the Right OR the Left raises the question ––I most emphatically DO believe in OFFICIAL DISICRMINATION between overtly BAD and obviously GOOD elements in the large group in question.

      And while we're at it I also believe that Municipal Authorities –– who openly defy federal Immigration Law in cases where VIOLENT CRIMINAL ACTIVITY has OCCURRED –– sho\uld be FINED, forcibly REMOVED from OFFICE ad JAILED for not less than two years.

      We certainly DO need to take Draconian measures to bring this terrible situatiin to a satisfactory resolution, but NOT when they adversely affect the lives of CHILDREN and basically decent people who have harmed no one, and how have in most cases made genuine contributions to the health and strength of our sosiety.

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    2. FT,
      I don't see that our despicable Congress Critters will do a damn thing. They are seeking either a new voting blok or a source of cheap labor -- or both.

      I realize that you are opposed to hurting the anchor babies.

      But what about the damage being done to the children of American citizens -- damage resulting directly from all the programs available to anchor babies but programs and boosts unavailable to the children of American citizens? We shouldn't forget about that latter group of children!

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    3. My gosh FreeThinke. Methinks the above proposal is something that might work. Probably something even the great Abraham Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt would support. Where they alive today. Ronald Reagan would likely approve as well were he alive.

      I might add establishment of quotas on annual immigration should be set and reinstated.

      Punishing honest, decent, hard working people who have, and continue to contribute to American society (and their children) is reprehensible as well as morally wrong.

      Footnote: Illegals who are determined to get in will find new creative means to do so. Irrespective of any border wall.

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    4. AOW said, "But what about the damage being done to the children of American citizens -- damage resulting directly from all the programs available to anchor babies but programs and boosts unavailable to the children of American citizens? We shouldn't forget about that latter group of children!"

      I believe in EQUAL OPPORTUNITY for ALL, so you are probably correct there, but neither should we forget that American Public Education has been a dismal FAILURE for more than half a century at least.

      AS I KEEP SAYING:

      WE are responsible for this mess. WE did it to OURSELVES, and because ut us essentially OUR fault I see NO VIRTUE WHATSEOVER in taking out our anger an frustration at what WE have done on INNOCENT PEOPLE –– oir own natural-born citizens among them.

      The problem underlying all of this was caused by an increasingly ROTTEN POPULAR CULTURE, –– a WAYWARD SUPREME COURT overly unfuenced by MARXIST THINKING, –– an INDOLENT, APATHETIC public "ignoranticized" by SUBVERSIVES in Government and Education at all levels.

      Sadly, I think yiu and SilverFiddle are probably right in believing our pusillanimous, venal, self-serving "government offices" have NO WILL NO HEART and NO DETERMINATION to correct the problem caused by THEIR negligence and stupidity and OUR apathy.

      We CAN, however, boost the values in which we believe by living our INDIVIDUAL lives in accordance with those beliefs, and by implementung them in our daily transactions –– as INDIVIDUALS –– with others.

      the GOLDEN RULE suplants andrrenders IRRELEVANT and UNNECESSARY all the OTHER Rules and Regulations we have dreamt up trying to get the better of one another.

      The ONLY HOPE for the SURVIVAL of the CHRISTIAN ETHOS would be to TEACH by EXAMPLE.


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    5. Well, I know what my cousin had to do to level the playing field because he was neglected by the education system because the funds caring for illegal-alien children gobbled up the system's resources (ESOL classes, counseling for these illegals, etc.): enlist in the Marines and do a tour of duty in Helmand Province, Afghanistan. Thank God that he came back to us whole (more or less)! He's now availing himself of the GI Bill.

      The Christian ethos helps him spiritually, but does not pay the bills as he attempts to launch his life at the age of 28. The delay for his launch was directly related to the high percentage of illegal-aliens' children in the public school system my cousin attended. The hallways! Very little English spoken! It's Little Latin America there! Sheesh.

      What's often missed in this discussion: the increased costs of the public education system as the system is overrun with the children of illegals -- at least, in some sections of the country ("sanctuary cities").

      ESOL classes need to come to a screeching halt! Now!

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    1. You are NOT Miss Shaw. We don't countenance IMPOSTURE here at FreeThinke's Blogspot any more than we welcome remarks UNRELATED to the topic at hand,

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  12. How can someone be a dreamer when they are too young to even know what planet they are on let alone in what country.

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    1. The ENEMEDIA dreams up and then saddles us with these "terms of convenient reference," Kid. I have no idea how they arrived at this one.

      I read somewhere, however, that the AVERAGE age of these so-called "dreamers" is about TWENTY-SIX.

      That does not mean they arrived here ar age twenty-five or even sixteen. Apparently, many have been here since they were infants or toddlers. In those cases the USA is the ONLY home they have ever known –– and the vast majority of them are NOT all "bums" who've been i]n WELFARE all their lives.

      They have no "come" to which they could "return." Many of them do not even soeak Soanish, I'm sure. Deporting them would be like casting them adrift in No Man's Land. To my way of thinking that would be "cruel and unusual punishment."

      At any rate I will insist that no matter what any of US chooses to call them whatever they are is the result of OUR negligence and stupidity.

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    2. FT, Yea it is difficult to cast out someone who never knew Mexico or could even speak the language.
      If they have no criminal record, I'm not going to sweat it. There are 22 million here according to valid counts (not 11 mil) and let's do what we are doing - casting out those with criminal records first and go from there.

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    3. PS - Not 22 mil Dreamers, but 22 mil total illegals.

      PPS - And lets insist those we choose to Not deport begin a bona fido path to citizenship and complete it as a requirement for them staying here.

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    3. The Spirit of Free Choice and Righteous JudgmentSeptember 24, 2017 at 12:52 PM

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    5. The Spirit of Free Choice and Righteous JudgmentSeptember 24, 2017 at 5:20 PM

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  17. FreeThinke watching Bunuel?

    It's ironic that Bunuel's film is primarily on your side.
    He wasn't a fan of liberal hypocrisy.

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    1. That said, while Los Olvidados is an excellent caution against romanticizing about the poor I haven't sensed that has been a motive for DACA.
      They are in a limbo through no fault of their own and by all accounts I've read, are not a criminal element. The DACA act seems the least we can do out of our better nature.

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    2. This post was not intended to spur an analysis of Bunuel's film, per se , Ducky.

      I found the images helpful underscoring points I was trying to make that was all. As you ought to know by now, I would never be one to assume or promote the notion that Poverty Confers Virtue On ANYONE. I feel the same about VICTIMHOOD in general.

      As I hope you have gathered from my many remarks on the subject that I epmoathize intensely with the pllght of the do-called "Dreamers," and indeed ALL illegal aiiens who have to all intents and purposes managed to assimilate and carve out a niche for themselves, and in the process have done much to contribute to the well-being of American society.

      I have ALSO made it clear that I believe all illegal aliens who have committed violent crimes –– or come here primarily to feed at the Public Trough ––, should be summarily TOSSED OUT on their ears and never permitted to return again.

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