Wednesday, April 24, 2013


The Virtues and Benefits of Hiring 
lllegal-Alien Workers

The Situation is Not What Most 
Americans Probably Want to Think it is



Yesterday at another blog many were complaining bitterly, and angrily in self-righteous tones while expressing resentment and deep hostility against the presence of somewhere between eleven and twenty million illegal aliens they see as “sponging off the system while producing instant American-citizens [i.e. ‘Anchor Babies’] by the tens of thousands.” 

Many were arguing in favor of the arrest, internment and deportation of the whole lot, and others were snarling that draconian methods should be used to punish the employers who hire these people –– a move that would effectively destroy or seriously cripple many businesses on which Americans have grown to depend.  

This would be bound to result in a sudden, wasteful scarcity of goods and services, and hugely inflated prices to say nothing of the heartbreak it would produce in the personal lives of hundreds of thousands of decent, highly productive, contributing human beings who in truth are guilty of nothing but taking advantage of our government’s laxity, stupidity, short-sightedness, negligence and inefficiency.  The illegals have simply moved in to fill a void.


Fellow blogger Dave Miller, who has lived in Mexico and had considerable experience working with Mexicans in connection with his line of work had this to say:

"Regarding hiring here in the US, we gave up hiring US workers on our construction projects as they could not compete in either speed, or quality of work.

“When you are working in multi-million dollar residences in Southern California, there are certain skills and abilities we needed that we were unable to find in the local, legal workforce.

"Even paying upwards of $20.00 an hour, it was always a struggle, so we found some [capable, willing, reliable, highly cooperative] guys, trained them ourselves and they've worked for us for over 20 years.

Our situation I am sure is probably not normal, but it is what it is."



FreeThinke’s Response

Dave, I can assure you it IS normal –– PERFECTLY normal. The same is true all the way across the country as far to the east as you could possibly get –– and I'm reasonably certain it is true at most-if-not-all points between. I can, personally, attest to the truth of your statement.  As a libertarian by natural inclination who has always maintained a healthy suspicion of Authority –– a suspicion that borders n contempt much of the time –– I have little or no respect for The Law when it willfully blinds itself to and refuses to accommodate Reality –– as it too often does.

What most Americans –– particularly those on the left –– refuse to see or to acknowledge is that Unionism and the machinations of the Progressive Movement for the past hundred years have resulted in vastly increased dependence on government assistance of all varieties. These possibly-well-meaning initiatives have done so much to undermine our once remarkably good Work Ethic they have virtually destroyed it.

The main idea ever since Collectivist Ideology took hold has been to agitate ceaselessly and strike repeatedly for higher and higher wages for doing less and less actual work.

The result?

1. A generally indolent, spoiled-rotten, increasingly belligerent and demanding work force who honestly believes it could never –– ever –– be paid enough for doing so much as lifting a finger.

2. Rapidly spiralling Inflation. [The Purchasing Power of the Dollar today is approximately one ONE-THOUSANDTH of what it was in my grandfather's day –– c. 1900.]

3. Inability for US companies to compete with those abroad, UNLESS they relocate to third world countries or outsource. The same has happen in Britain, of course, and most of the European countries who've gone the socialist route. 

4. Loss of economic ascendancy for Western Nations.

5. The rise of the infernal thing known as Crony Capitalism where business moguls have developed an unholy alliance with government in order to protect themselves against relentless Government Encroachment on Business. The result has been an immoral, hideously disproportionate accumulation of wealth "at the top" and a palpably disintegrating standard of living for the rest of us.

All of history is nothing but a long long series of Action-Reaction, Cause-and-Effect. The Law of Unintended Consequences is ALWAYS at work. Everything we do has Consequences. Nothing comes without a Price Tag. Sooner or later The Piper Must Be Paid.

In short WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.


30 comments:

  1. The illegals have simply moved in to fill a void.

    Not entirely true.

    For example, I know several skilled American carpenters who have been working at their trade for 20+ years (with families, house payments, etc.). Illegal-immigrant carpenters seriously cut the rates for carpentry work.

    Let me ask you this....Suppose that you have been a professional musician for 20+ years and charging $50/hour; your standard of living is based on your income, of course. Someone moves into your area and charges only $10/hour, what happens to the fee that you can charge? Down it goes, and down goes your standard of living.

    In my own case, I work for a pittance -- not because of illegal immigrants but because parents with little teaching experience teach free classes or classes that charge next to nothing. People naturally gravitate toward the better financial deal -- even though my work is clearly sterling. The consequences of their children not getting into a decent college are too far in the future, I guess.

    there are certain skills and abilities we needed that we were unable to find in the local, legal workforce

    I do think that many illegal immigrants are doing work that Americans won't do -- for a number of reasons. However, at the same time, the market is creating what amounts to a slave class.

    Furthermore, many illegals come from a culture that places no value on education. Some of those immigrant children in the classroom (anchor babies) are very difficult to deal with in all respects-- or so I've been told by my friends who work in the public education system.

    Now, the following is certainly true of some illegal immigrants: decent, highly productive, contributing human beings

    But there are also illegal immigrants who are pissed off the that United States "stole" their land and some with drug-and-gang issues.

    I totally agree with the following:

    Many Americans are a generally indolent, spoiled-rotten, increasingly belligerent and demanding work force who honestly believes it could never –– ever –– be paid enough for doing so much as lifting a finger.

    Furthermore, America has bought into the idea that everyone should go to college AND that manual labor is demeaning. The latter idea is part of what destroyed Spain back in the 16th and 17th Centuries. Getting one's hands dirty by working was considered an unworthy pursuit.

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  2. And you know what? I think that, sooner rather than later, there will be a push for reparations for illegal immigrants because they were forced to live as a slave class.

    UNTIL OUR BORDERS ARE SECURE, NOTHING ABOUT IMMIGRATION WILL BE SOLVED!

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  3. One more example....

    Home health aides are lucky to get $10/hour; the agency gets the balance, well over $100/hour. Immigrants will work for the #$10/hour and so will some Americans. However, such a wage does consign home health aides and their families to a lower class. A vicious cycle.

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  4. Free Thinke, you completely ignore the fact that the Obama administration IS incompetent and is INTOLERANT to the things it was intended to do. NOT to be the be-all, end-all of problem solving in every American life.
    I just read this guy(Dave Miller’s) blog and quite frankly he and his blog disgusts me. He seems as if he is more devote to Mexico than he is to the United States. If he wants to do Missionary work, there is plenty to do right here in America without going to Mexico and spen his US dollars there to help Mexicans instead of helping all those Americans wo need help just as much. We are told by this administration that Illegal Aliens are important to our economy, and that “they do work that American’s will not do” Well I don’t believe one single word of that crap. What they do is they hold down wages because they work for what the employer WANTS to pay them which is slave wages at best!., And yes they suck our safety nets dry because it costs up to $10,000 a year for one illegal alien child to go to one of our schools, They collect the welfare, undercut an Americans job, and pay no taxes. except sales taxes. That’s nothing compared to a USA Citizen or LEGAL resident immigrant!. We give and they take period! And the problem with Pathway to citizenship (AMNESTY)no matter how long they say it will take is still Amnesty! The break the law and get rewarded for it, The crime, gangs, prison costs that they pile up is enormous. The very fact some hang the United States flag upside down under the Mexican flag is reason enough for me to want them all gone!. Our Emergency rooms, and welfare offices are always packed full of Mexicans. and the USA Citizen always come up short on the fareness side of this bias stick!. They bring in more drugs than anyone else, there are more Mexican drunken driver arrests and hit and runs and accident caused by these Mexican drunks then by any other group.
    It has been shown about 80% of the illegal’s do come out of Mexico. drug cartels, human smugglers, and so much more are coming across that border every day. Illegals from Mexico do not care what the laws are here .
    Our healthcare costs go up because we the USA Citizen pay for what they get. But we are supposed to be Politically correct and welcome them here? Sorry, NOT me This is a shame!. Being here illegally should be grounds for deportation by it self. Hussein Obama is just that like all the other Hussein's out there trying to kill America.
    This Dave Miller is another Bleeding Heart Liberal.
    Hopefully the clueless Bleeding Heart Liberals will wake up one day.

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  5. Now comes this outrage about legal immigration:

    Marathon bombings mastermind Tamerlan Tsarnaev was living on taxpayer-funded state welfare benefits even as he was delving deep into the world of radical anti-American Islamism, the Herald has learned....

    [...]

    In addition, both of Tsarnaev’s parents received benefits, and accused brother bombers Dzhokhar and Tamerlan were recipients through their parents when they were younger, according to the state.

    The news raises questions over whether Tsarnaev financed his radicalization on taxpayer money....


    FUBAR!

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  6. Amen!
    This is how government created the "void" that now must be filled by immigrants:

    What most Americans –– particularly those on the left –– refuse to see or to acknowledge is that Unionism and the machinations of the Progressive Movement for the past hundred years have resulted in vastly increased dependence on government assistance of all varieties. These possibly-well-meaning initiatives have done so much to undermine our once remarkably good Work Ethic they have virtually destroyed it.


    AOW has a point, and this is why even libertarian thinkers have observed that free movement across borders does not work when there is a vast differential between social benefits and wages.

    We have rewarded sloth and cupidity, and so we will get ever more of it.

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  7. From the Boston Herald link, re: benefits to the Tsarnaev families:

    State officials confirmed last night that Tsarnaev, slain in a raging gun battle with police last Friday, was receiving benefits along with his wife, Katherine Russell Tsarnaev, and their 3-year-old daughter. The state’s Executive Office of Health and Human Services said those benefits ended in 2012 when the couple stopped meeting income eligibility limits. Russell Tsarnaev’s attorney has claimed Katherine — who had converted to Islam — was working up to 80 hours a week as a home health aide while Tsarnaev stayed at home.

    Katherine Tsarnaev and the couple's daughter are natural-born American citizens. Should they have been denied the state help they were legally eligible for because the father was not a natural born citizen? And at the time, the father was not suspected of terrorism?

    I don't see where this has any relevance. Except to stir up hatred for foreigners who are legally here.

    We can't see into the future and know who will attack us and who will not. The idea that all Muslims should be denied entrance into this country, as some have suggested, is absurd.

    For the person who wrote this:

    "Being here illegally should be grounds for deportation by it self. Hussein Obama is just that like all the other Hussein's out there trying to kill America."

    President Obama IS deporting illegals, more than previous presidents have:

    "In four years, Mr. Obama’s administration has deported as many illegal immigrants as the administration of George W. Bush did in his two terms, largely by embracing, expanding and refining Bush-era programs to find people and send them home. By the end of this year, deportations under Mr. Obama are on track to reach two million, or nearly the same number of deportations in the United States from 1892 to 1997."

    But like most hysterics, T.S. let his emotions get in the way of facts.




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  8. And he's allowing more in than any other president

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  9. "Darth Bacon said...
    And he's allowing more in than any other president"

    Got any evidence for that statement?

    No. Didn't think so. You and your fellow travelers just make stories up to fit your narrative. But facts are stubborn things, and they have a way of outsmarting people who just plain lie:

    One deportations and illegals coming into the US:

    "If you instead compare the two presidents’ [Bush/Obama] monthly averages, it works out to 32,886 for Obama and 20,964 for Bush, putting Obama clearly in the lead. Bill Clinton is far behind with 869,676 total and 9,059 per month. All previous occupants of the White House going back to 1892 fell well short of the level of the three most recent presidents.

    We wondered whether there might have been a surge of undocumented immigrants that explained the increase, but there wasn’t. During the first two years of Obama’s tenure, the Pew Hispanic Center estimated the illegal immigrant population nationwide at 11.2 million, compared to an average during Bush’s eight-year tenure of 10.6 million. And illegal immigration actually peaked late in Bush’s second term, at which point the recession hit and the numbers declined under Obama.

    D.B. usually answers facts with "Liberals Blaming Bush," which, of course, is his and others' usual way of ignoring facts and redirecting away from uncomfortable truths--it's call Cognitive Dissonance.

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  10. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  11. Ah! but WHERE are you getting YOUR facts FROM, Ms Shaw?

    Highly suspect sources, I strongly suspect -- just as you would say of any sources I might happen to quote.

    FACTS are NOT TRUTH.

    Facts for the most part are isolated pieces of a very large jigsaw puzzle. No one could possibly know what the picture really is until ALL the facts are in and put in proper context.

    I am quite certain that IF that ever should happen EVERY SINGLE ONE of US would be surprised and undoubtedly disillusioned.

    But you too -- like everyone else, who insists on 'straining out gnats while swallowing camels" -- seem determined to miss the point of my post.

    I can't believe the implications of so much of what I put forth here are THAT difficult to discern. The problem, I think, is that few -- on EITHER side of the political equation -- are ready, willing, and certainly EAGER to entertain the concepts I favor.

    I'm just not partisan ENOUGH to please -- or interest -- EITHER side. ;-)

    I have become militantly ANTI-BOILERPLATE opinion and fed up to the TEETH with INVECTIVE.

    Be of good cheer. The Voice of Reason is here. (LOL!)

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  12. Let me remind you THIS post has little or nothing to do with President Obama.

    Obama is a SYMPTOM not a CAUSE.

    All this frothing at the mouth is not only unseemly, it's DISGUSTING -- and what's far worse -- it's BORING.

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  13. Maybe DB don't make up lame BS excuses for this sorry excuse for a president as you do!

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  14. AOW, I agree that nothing significant can or will be done about illegal immigration until we close our borders. The problem, however, is that I cannot IMAGINE how it COULD be done on any realistic PHYSICAL level.

    I don't want to get into a tangle about the fairness of allowing free competition to rule the marketplace, but IF IT DID -- which was THE point I was trying address, EVERYONE would be better off.

    What I wish EVERYONE could just BEGIN to understand is this: The NUMBER of dollars we make or save is NOT anywhere NEAR as important as the PURCHASING POWER those dollars have.

    I too have always found myself working for a pittance, BECAUSE I have always valued the freedom to do what I believed in MORE than I valued "wealth" per se.

    Working for a high salary in the public schools would be like CRUCIFIXION to me. I knew early on that doing what my father had done by working his way up the ladder from being a salesman in the field to being appointed vice president of a large corporation could never be for me. The price he paid for his great success was MUCH to high.

    As we know "quality" does NOT sell in this perverse, dumbed-down society, but does that mean we have to PROSTITUTE ourselves -- as most wind up doing -- to grab a larger share of the sheckels?

    I DON'T THINK SO!

    Our values as a society frankly STINK to HIGH HEAVEN. Our way of life, such as it has become is NOT WORTH SUPPORTING.

    We need to get real.

    The "illegals" in MY acquaintance have a FAR SUPERIOR WORK EItHIC to the average American member of the laboring class -- for all the reasons I outlined in the article.

    The illegals are NOT spoiled, and for the most part they are a GREAT ASSET -- and HAVE BEEN all along.

    Those photos I posted were taken in the 1920's and 30's.

    Why are we just NOTICING these people, who've been coming here and doing much of the menial work since we became a country, NOW?

    I hasten to add, lest there be no misunderstanding, that THIS post was about the virtue of MEXICANS, GUATEMALANS, SALVADORANS, PERUVIANS, et al. and NOT about the rising tide of SEPSIS coming to us from the MIDDLE EAST.

    I view that as an entirely separate issue.

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  15. Someone send FT a copy of "In Dubious Battle".

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  16. As soon as our agents discover your address, Ducky, we're going to send YOU a copy of How to Win Friends and Influence People plus a full tuition scholarship to Reform School -- attendance compulsory. Armed guards will accompany you.

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  17. This is the first time, in years, I have ever read or heard of anyone criticizing Dave Miller, the man. I have seen people disagree with him politically, plenty. I do often. But to go after a man for working to spread spirituality and quality of life and goodwill over a location or race or country? New low.

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  18. 2. Rapidly spiralling Inflation. [The Purchasing Power of the Dollar today is approximately one ONE-THOUSANDTH of what it was in my grandfather's day –– c. 1900.]
    -----
    Someone do the math.
    Even the monetarists of Milton Friedman's ilk believe an inflation rate of around three percent a year is natural and manageable.
    Doesn't seem to be "rapidly spiralling(sic)" to me.

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  19. Read Dale Carnegie, Ducks. I've never known anyone who needed him more.

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  20. FT,
    The "illegals" in MY acquaintance have a FAR SUPERIOR WORK EItHIC to the average American member of the laboring class

    I've experienced that, too. But I've also experienced the opposite.

    One of my homeschool families has voluntarily taken on the task of mowing my yard ever since Mr. AOW's stoke. This particular family, both the mother and the father have pulled themselves up by their boot straps and exited the grinding poverty of Appalachia, have children with a wonderful work ethic, particularly when it comes to working with their hands.

    Too many generations of Americans have the entitlement mentality, IMO.

    When immigrants, legal or illegal, fall into the entitlement mentality -- and I think that they will, sooner or later -- there will be hell to pay.

    If a new immigration policy chooses to legalize millions of illegals, that policy SHOULD carefully vet those immigrants. We need contributors to the economy not more people on the government teat.

    One of my biggest complaints about immigration is what ESL courses have done to our education system -- with regard to both finances of the system and standards of education. Those ESL concessions are a mess! As one who has taught ESL students of all ages, I can vouch for them, particularly for the adults, that they try very hard. But even after years of instruction, they are far from competent with their communication skills.

    Hell, we even have professors who are incompetent in English to the point that students can't follow what these professors are trying to convey! What good is a physics or mathematics professor who is unintelligible and, therefore, unable to pass along necessary material to students to the point that students have to hire out of pocket their own English-speaking tutors for certain subjects?

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  21. In today's WaPo:

    Pr. George’s couple accused of treating woman like a slave

    Gloria and Alfred Edwards Jr. admit that they broke the law by bringing a woman from the Philippines to the United States under false pretenses, lying on visa applications and having her stay in their Maryland home for a decade.

    Alfred, 74, a retired Army doctor, and Gloria, 61, say their intentions were pure: They were trying to help an impoverished, illiterate woman from the Philippines start a new life in the United States.

    The government, however, contends that the couple effectively enslaved the woman — known in court papers by her initials T.E. — in their Upper Marlboro home, forcing her to work without pay as a maid and threatening her with financial ruin, deportation and personal harm if she ran away.

    [...]

    T.E., who has a first-grade education, is unable to read, write or drive, and she has almost no grasp of English, Winkley said. Alfred and Gloria Edwards monitored her phone calls, required her to ask permission to visit neighbors, forced her to marry Alfred’s ailing brother David, and then took benefits that she was owed as David’s spouse after his death in 2008, according to FBI interviews and court documents.

    The couple kept T.E.’s passport in a padlocked room above a drawer of handguns, Winkley testified. Prosecutors say T.E. was forced to work about 14 hours a day, seven days a week, without pay, and the government is seeking restitution. She was 59 in December, according to court documents. Her attorneys declined to comment or verify her age now.

    Relatives of the Edwardses tell a different story: When they visited the couple, T.E. pitched in to help prepare meals and then sat down to eat with the family, played cards and sang karaoke, according to testimony.

    T.E. was “like family,” Alfred Edwards wrote in an e-mail to one of T.E.’s daughters. The Edwardses sometimes supported T.E.’s children financially and provided them with housing and tuition, according to prosecutors and defense attorneys....


    Was she, in some respects, a "voluntary" slave?

    Anyway, the case is making headlines here in the D.C. area.

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  22. BTW, I know of at least one separate situation much like the above -- although, to outward appearances, the family treated the maid very well. The family also provided some money for the maid's children in Mexico -- some 14 children.

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  23. Good morning, AOW.

    I do understand where you're coming from, and empathize more than this featured article might lead you and others to believe.

    I completely agree with the following:

    "Too many generations of Americans have the entitlement mentality, IMO.

    "When immigrants, legal or illegal, fall into the entitlement mentality -- and I think that they will, sooner or later -- there will be hell to pay.

    "If a new immigration policy chooses to legalize millions of illegals, that policy SHOULD carefully vet those immigrants. We need contributors to the economy not more people on the government teat."


    That has been one of the points I've tried most to emphasize whenever thus nettlesome issue comes up for discussion. The DEMOCRATS have POISONED the WELL by dangling the seductive promise of "entitlements" in front of many weak, deprived individuals -- domestic and foreign, legal and illegal.

    I am morally certain their leaders have done this cynically IN ORDER to GET THE UNWAVERING SUPPORT of these TARGETED "VICTIM" GROUPS, of course.


    These "freebies" the D'Rats dangle are the largest part of a nefarious scheme to BUY and then HOLD a PERMANENT INCUMBENCY for the DEMOCRATS.

    The result will be to turn the USA into The Socialist Workers Republik of Amerika.

    Leftists will cynically USE and MANIPULATE just about anyone or anything to gain, hold and forever increase their DEATH GRIP on POWER.

    MY point in taking the position of advocate vis-a-vis the employment of illegal immigrants was to try to illustrate the terrible mistakes our government has made that led inexorably to our present dilemma.

    I clearly blame UNIONISM and the SOCIALIST mentality for bringing this on.

    I am grateful to Kurt SilverFiddle, because he DID grasp the essence of what I tried to convey.

    You and I are not really in THAT much disagreement, although I am "liberal" enough, I suppose to put HUMANE considerations above purely economic ones, and far, far, FAR ahead of "The Law."

    As I am fond of saying -- probably too often, these days -- I really do believe "The Law is an Ass."

    And by that I really mean pharisaical or legalistic thinking when I refer to "The Law." I get my authority on that from Jesus. As you may remember, HE didn't like it any more than I do. ;-)

    PS: Hope you're feeing better? Please don't think I haven't been concerned. - FT

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  24. I see that You deleted my post AGAIN, I hope you're feeling better now, , I only wonder why you allow people to post comments about me and when I respond, you delete it? They were replying directly to me and my comment.
    You seem to favor the Progressive bunch don't you!
    It's high time for the madness of the Progressives, Democrats and all Socialists to be put in their proper place.
    Well good luck with these people on your blog.... Brrr Bye.

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  25. KP and Duck... Thanks...

    Silver and Shaw have in the past leapt to my defense after people have been unable to separate the secular and the religious.

    What gets lost in any discussion on immigration is that this is indeed a complex issue that will not be easily solved.

    Conservatives are correct in that we have to get a handle on stopping people entering our country without papers.

    But liberals are also correct when they recognize that we are not going to deport 11 million people.

    Add in families broken by deportations and the innate need to feed that family, job loss due to global trade policies and we've got a mess.

    Thanks for the mention Free...

    BTW, a focus on and appreciation of one subject should be seen automatically as denigration of another.

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  26. Sounds like some people can't handle the truth.

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  27. The TRUTH, eh?


    And what might that me, RR? We'd like to know your interpretation

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  28. Late to this discussion, but after reading Miller's blog, whatever Miller advocates, I'd be against.
    For some reason, when the Democrats are in charge, I keep feeling the need to take a shower.

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  29. FreeThinke said...
    "The TRUTH, eh?
    And what might that me, RR? We'd like to know your interpretation"

    My comment was directed to Dave Millers comment.

    I CERTAINLY wouldn't dare to contradict anything that YOU said!
    For Fear of my comment being deleted.

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