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It's a crapshoot. "Ryan's" plan is ACA light but it will cause millions to lose insurance. Probably the projected "savings" are inflated or exaggerated.
ReplyDelete"Ryan's" plan is better than repeal now, replace later. Why, because there likely is no plan to replace in all actuality.
Do I trust Ryan and McConnell? No. But I trust Trump less.
Our government and many of the people of this nation are in a bad place right now with respect to health care. It likely is to get much worse. My opinion, hope I'm wrong.
Gwendolyn Eubanks said
DeleteWhom DO you trust? Anyone?
Why should anyone trust the US government? What has it done recently to earn that trust? When one hears those in power are hell-bent on destroying "the state," why would anyone trust them? We are all "the state."
DeleteAnonymous, when you said "recently" it seemed to signal an unwillingness or inability to put any faith in the newly elected administration.
DeleteDid you mean to imply that the PREVIOUS administration WAS worthy of your trust –– or did you mean that government in general has not been our friend for many decades, if ever?
I hope you'll come back to clarify your remark. It may seem like a small point, but to me it represents an important distinction.
Thomas Jefferson, –– that rich, over-privileged, wicked, monstrously selfish old slave owner and pedophile rapist whom we've been so misguided as to revere until Leftist Activist0Decinstructivists set us straight –– said:
"It would be a dangerous delusion were a confidence in the men of our choice to silence our fears for the safety of our rights: that confidence is everywhere the parent of despotism –– free government is founded on jealousy, and not in confidence which prescribes limited constitutions . . . In questions of power then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him from mischief by the chains of the Constitution."
Let me repeat this most significant phrase:
"FREE GOVERNMENT is FOUNDED on JEALOUSY, and NOT in CONFIDENCE ..." [in those holding power]
Yes, but failure to permit "The Peoples' Choice" to exercise the duties of his office freely, –– unless or until he commits a "high crime" or "misdemeanor" that makes him worthy of impeachment –– is a prescription for anarchy.
"We" are not "the state!"
DeleteWe are the people. This isn't communist North Korea. Yet.
Good morning, Matt. I think I know what yu mean, but in a sense Jersey is right.
DeleteAren't WE the PEOPLE supposed to BE our own GOVERNMENT?
I was taught that as the essence of our identity as "a new nation conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal."
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ReplyDeleteJoan, how many times do I have to tell you –– and others –– that WE DO NOT ACCEPT BOILERPLATE,especially when it bears no relation to the topic at hand.
DeleteYou may mean well, but technically you are SPAMMING my blog.
Please Don't.
Thank you.
As for your troll thoughts, I’m not interested in your warmed-over right-wing talking points on Donald Trump. Or why Hillary lost the Electoral College vote.
ReplyDeleteWhat IS interesting to me is the various investigations into the Mike Flynn scandal, the Trump-Russia connection, Trump’s lying about Mr. Obama’s “wire-tapp” and Trump’s manic behavior while playing “president.” Trump is still languishing st the bottom in approval ratings by the American people. IOW, a considerably large majority dislike the Liar-in-Chief and his dystopian administration.
Your blogs and comments seems a wee bit desperate in your hope that I or anyone would take you seriously. OTOH, thanks for letting all of us know that you at least graduated from high school Or did you?
As usual we learn about Anonymous from what he-she says abut FreeThinke than we learn about FreeThinke.
DeleteYou don't paint a flattering picture of yourself, Anonymous.
Eff these people, FreeThinke!
DeleteThere ain't nothing there with the Russia thing. The Progs are caught now: They supposedly got all this stuff on Trump but when you bring up that that means Obama's police state was spying on him, they go all blabbery and stupid.
The whole damn thing is a cooked-up non scandal by Obama and being carried out by his moles still burrowed deep in the bureaucracy.
Trump has been beating the progs like a drum since last year, so they whine and cry and stir up all the redshirt rage they can. Pathetic.
It's worse than pathetic, Matt. It's tantamount to poking sticks into the Wheels of progress, thus crippling and gumming up the machinery that MIGHT produce viable solutions to our most pressing problems.
DeleteToo bad we can't appoint Mr.Trump a DICTATOR whose word is Law –– for a limited period, and then see what could happen IF he was able to do his darnedest unimpeded by the barrage of disingenuous bullshit he must wade through and bother to clean up each day.
I'm an ARTIST, you know, –– never an organization man, never one to take orders from anyone less intelligent than I, never one to let anyone alter, edit or truncate my work whatever it might be.
As an "artist," I am a sort of DICTATOR, and guess what? –– Often I've been able to produce SUPERIOR results, BECAUSE I was able to get away with eschewing supervision most of my life –– AFTER I left school, of course.
Beethoven, as you well know, is one of my great heroes. HIS life many would claim was a MESS, but HE put first things first according to HIS unique perceptions and personal values. This meant he worked ENTIRELY alone producing marvels nearly ever day of his 57-year life span.
A symphony, a sonata, an opera, a string quartet, a song cycle, solo works for keyboard instruments have NEVER been put together by a COMMITTEE. Art by its very nature MUST be UNCOMPROMISING.
Frankly, I'd like to see more of that in government.
We might ALL be surprised and delighted if only ARTISTS and VISIONARIES could run the show, instead of the dull, plodding DUNDERHEADS with tunnel vision we have to put up with under current provisions.
"A giraffe is an animal pt together by a committee."
"Too many cooks spoil the broth"
These ancient sayings didn't become popular because they are NOT perfectly true. };^)>
What IS interesting to me is the various investigations into the Mike Flynn scandal, the Trump-Russia connection, Trump’s lying about Mr. Obama’s “wire-tapp” and Trump’s manic behavior while playing “president.” Trump is still languishing st the bottom in approval ratings by the American people.
ReplyDelete_________
Sounds to me you are more interested in propagating the myths created by the MSM who are behind the Russian scare. Russia has been the victim of economic warfare waged by the USA in the American destabilizing of the Ukraine by the State Department. Some sane people are looking for ways to step back from the brink of a conflagration that would be extremely ugly. HRC, John McCain Lindsay Graham are not them, though.
Donald Trump is one man who has had the guts to stand up to the evils being perpetrated upon the planet over the past century on the road to a globalist New World Order. And that involves traitors in both political parties.
I know Trump has gotten too many old guard politicians in his administration now. And it may well be his political undoing. But I believe Trump would KNOW this since his info is way more timely that ours.
You sound like a sore loser, Anon.
Thank you, Waylon. As usual you make a good deal of sense, HOWEVER I wish you had addressed the topic of the post –– i.e. the problems involved in replacing Obamacare –– , and at least tried to answer ONE of my questions.
DeleteNot scolding you, but it proves my intention that my allowing posts made by obvious trolls to remain in place too often succeeds in DERAILING the conversation, which is precisely what trolls always hope to do.
I deliberately left the offensive post in place just to see what might happen, and BOOM! proof arrived almost immediately that it would have been better had I zapped the damned thing.
LESSON LEARNED!
Apologies, FT. I normally don't respond to obvious trolls did not intend to encourage one here with my response. I wasn't intending to interfere with your discretion in weeding the garden either.
DeleteI refrain from commenting on the American health care system since it doesn't apply to me directly, although I am quite aware of "socialized medicine" from north of the border.
Not to worry, Waylon. I would, however, be INTENSELY interested in what you might have to say abut the Canadian system of Universal Medical Care.
DeleteI've hearad reports highly SUPPORTIVE of it from a Canadian friend now deceased, and I've heard the OPPOSITE view expressed from other Caonadians who have had t come to the USA to get the surgery they desperately needed in a timely manner.
It's been the same mixed reviews from British friends.
I understand your income tax is a great deal higher than ours –– a chance needed to say for Universal Health care, but I don't know much about it. So, IF you'd be good enough to fill using, I'd appreciate it, and I'm sure others would too.
Well, FT, the best I can say is that the Canadian health care system does work, but has some severe short comings. Those providing the front line health care are for the most part, in my experience, highly qualified professionals, motivated by a desire to help.
DeleteThe biggest problem is the ER waiting times. And it is evident to most people that health care is one huge bureaucracy that is administered by those of a "political bent" who make the rules and impose them on the health care providers.
I guess, that is common and not dependent on the country in which you live. I have no first-hand horror stories and had not much spent in hospital until this year. On January first I was admitted to hospital with pneumonia for about two weeks. Still recovering. The care I received was top notch and the attitudes of those providing the care was excellent. I suppose it's an individual thing and there would be others with different and unpleasant experiences.
The bottom lie: The Health care system is there when you need it but access to it is more problematic.
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ReplyDeleteOne thing we can be sure of is there will be no independent investigative journalist doing a piece about obama's involvement.
ReplyDeleteDid his administration bug trump, no one knows yet.
As to the CBO's report. How can 14 million lose healthcare coverage when there are 11.5 million enrolled. They use the "eligible" as a benchmark of how many "could" enroll. Since only 30% of "eligible" recipients signed up for obamacare it could be assumed that it was not very popular. Now the nasty republicans are going to take away healthcare for people who chose not to have it.
The outrage over healthcare, BLM, OWS, PPH are all created by the media to further their agenda.
The media praises a group of politicians that passed a massive bill they have never seen. Instead of preaching impeachment for incompetence they tout how dedicated these people are.
I have no faith in any politician to do what is best for America because they would have to put someone's interest ahead of their own and that won't happen. The CBO is just a mouthpiece for congress and is more often wrong than right.
"Now the nasty republicans are going to take away healthcare for people who chose not to have it."
DeleteBINGO!
Do you feel President Trump is just as selfish and cynical as most members of congress, Skud, or do you believe he sought this thankless job, because he honestly wants to save the USA from Globalists and the innate stupidity of our gullible, emotionally immature, incredibly self-absorbed population?
Forgot to add.
ReplyDeleteIt is Da-- near impossible to take away free stuff once it has been given. The democraps know this and will use it to their advantage.
You can say DAMN here, Skud. It's perfectly all right wth me, IF it's appropriate to the expressed sentiment.
DeleteBut you are certainly correct in saying it's virtually impossible to take back something that's been given –– however unwisely.
As Rush Limbaugh has said so often, "No one can beat Santa Claus."
The trouble is, –– as all grown up people know ––, there IS no Santa Claus.
I hope and pray every day that we don't have to rebuild Civilization from smoking ruin after another violent "revolution" to find that out.
"I'm from the government and I'm here to "help"..." - biggest lie ever told.
ReplyDeletePatrick Remington said
DeleteThe IRS is nothing but a terrorist organization, as bad or worse than Al Kyder and ISIS combined. The rest of the alphabet soup crowd isn't much better.
I don't trust the CBO any further than I can throw michael moore.
ReplyDeleteAs to the rest of it the jury is out.
I'd love to see you throw Michael Moore, Kid.
DeleteTHAT would be a sight for sore eyes.
};^)>
I don't trust Ryan.
ReplyDeleteTax subsidies for everyone (which makes prices go up, not down) including those making over $200,000/year, while millions at the low end will lose coverage...
I don't Trust Ryan.
They had eight years to game this out and this is what they come up with? If they pull this off, all the anger against Obamacare will be forgotten, and 100% of the rage will be focused on the GOOPers since they will own it.
The Democrat Party demagogues and progressive propagandists in the press will trot out wall to wall coverage of every poor broken down, dying person who was duped by the GOP to vote for Trump...
No way the GOOP wins with this. No. F---ing. Way.
We all caught on to their scam years ago. They all talk a great game about smaller government, cutting spending and free markets, but they deliver us bigger and more intrusive government, more debt, and they are all scared shitless of the free market.
I am trying to stay optimistic. If they get Neil Gorsuch on the Supreme Court and nothing more, it will be all worth while.
I am extremely disappointed in Ryan. I thought he was supposed to be some kind of wiz kid.
I am also disappointed in Trump's team. Where are their attack dogs flooding the media zone? Where are the army of lawyers engaging the progressive lawyers?
The GOOPers are on track to lose the house and the presidency by 2020.
SF,
DeleteThey had eight years to game this out and this is what they come up with?
My thought, too.
They've been all talk -- specifically talk designated to continue their careers as career politicians.
The GOOPers are on track to lose the house and the presidency by 2020.
That's exactly what will happen if RyanCare as it is now becomes the law of the land.
Are you surprised? I'm not. The RINO Establishment is comprised of Born Losers.
DeleteI, personally, have come to believe these apparent fools are heavily involved in a de facto conspiracy to turn our country over to One World government. That must be why genuinely conservative-libertarian views always seem to get short shrift from all the Washington insiders.
The Founders' concept of representative government has been largely abandoned. We are governed now by a farcical SHAM.
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ReplyDelete"If they get Neil Gorsuch on the Supreme Court and nothing more, it will be all worthwhile."
DeletePossibly, but how could we be sure the honorable judge Gorsuch won't turn out to be another John Roberts, David Souter, Anthony Kennedy, Sandra Day O'Connor –– or worst of all –– another EARL WARREN?
Republicans have had a positive GENIUS for choosing TRAITORS to the cause of Conservatism in America.
There is no assurance, but at least we got a shot at putting someone sensible in there. An impossibility had Hellary won.
DeleteI'm sorry your remark got deleted, Anon. It was an error on my part. I am legally blind, you know, so it's all too easy to make stupid mistakes.
DeleteI missed this post!
ReplyDeleteI think Ryan dutifully put out the "establishment" Republican plan that was expected and that they've been promising for years. He had to. It's not a serious proposal, but rather another Jack Kemp-ish thing that sounds like it's heart's in the right place, but reads like it's head is just not in it. But it's the first at bat. The Dems have decided to wait on the bench and offer nothing - probably a mistake, but hopefully they at least say something soon. The Far Right is booing, but not offering anything either. The Senate gets the second at bat. But this is going to get weird before that happens...
Trump's buddies at NewsMax, of all places have offered this advise: http://www.newsmax.com/Ruddy/trump-healthcare-health-paul-ryan/2017/03/14/id/778568/
"1. Ditch the Freedom Caucus and the handful of Senate Republicans who want a complete repeal of Obamacare. They don't agree with universal coverage and will never be placated.
2. Find a few parts of Ryan Care II that can win passage in the House and Senate with either GOP support or bipartisan support. Declare victory.
3. Rekindle the bipartisanship in Congress that Obama destroyed. Empanel a bipartisan committee to report back by year's end with a feasible plan to fix Obamacare.
4. Reject the phony private health insurance market as the panacea. Look to an upgraded Medicaid system to become the country's blanket insurer for the uninsured.
5. Tie Medicaid funding to states with the requirement each pass legislation to allow for a truly nationwide healthcare market.
6. Get Democrats to agree to modest tort reform to help lower medical costs.
7. While bolstering Medicare and improving Medicaid, get Republicans and Democrats to back the long-term fix of health savings accounts. This allows individuals to fund their own healthcare and even profit from it."
Now, that's interesting to read. I'm not endorsing anything here, but Trump does not want to go down as a hated failure, the GOP will wind up owning whatever they do, and here Trump has an opportunity to do something that may at least work as well or better than Obamacare, and from the numbers I'm seeing, it should work far far better than that high pop fly Ryan put out.
Ryan and McConnell would like to create something that kicks the can as far as possible. They know Trump gets the blame if things don't work out. They are not on his side. Neither is Tom Cotton or the other far righties, who would have America fall on the sword and try to keep the blame on the Dems and Obama. They forget, ironically, how short the American political memory is. Health care falls to pieces, just remember, the Red States have high rates of poor and under-and-uninsured white Republican voters. They can only take so many punches to the gut before they finally decide to move. They are taking a risky course for the sake of ideological zealotry that there voters don't really share - just look at who they elected President!
Trump would do well to try to really fix this. Ryan's plan should be ignored. I think Trump may surprise us here.
JMJ
Amazing –– especially chiming from you, Jersey. ;-)
DeleteHey! I'm glad you got back to us. I was a little worried when you didn't show up yesterday.
As Silver Fiddle and Kid both said, each in his own unique fashion, I don't trust Ryan at all. I'm afraid he's just another power mad egomaniac who's in it for himself. A big disappointment, because he seemed so promising just a few years ago.
The Left seems completely united in their determination to do everything possible ti thwart President Trump's agenda, but for no other reason than their stark, raving FURY at his having beat Her Heinous last November.
They can't accept defeat gracefully, In fact they can't bring themselves to accept the results of a duly held national election that did NOT favor THEM at ALL
Thus is what happens when the powerful care more for holding on to power than they do for the fate of the nation –– or any segment of the electorate.
I can see no reason why Mr. Trump would inconvenience himself and his family to such an extent if he did NOT honestly care for the fate of our country and her people. After all, he truly "had it made" and had no conceivable NEED to take on ths gigantic migraine headache and turn himself into The National Dartboard. Whatever else you may want to think of Donald J. Trump no one could call him a MASOCHIST.
Jersey,
DeleteI don't read Newsmax, so thanks for bringing us that. I wish the hell they had listened to Ruddy. A far-right jam through will be no more successful than the far left jam through was.
About the only thing I disagree with there is their disdain for the free market. There are some reforms that would allow natural market forces to keep health care prices in check.
Too much focus on insurance, not enough on the health care market itself.
The GOOP is on the road to destruction with this, and Ryan is at the wheel, but they will all pay the price, including President Trump.
As you said, voters' political memories are short. Obamacare will be forgotten as millions bitch about what the GOP did to their health care, and they will punish the GOOPers at the polls.
JMJ,
DeleteRyan and McConnell would like to create something that kicks the can as far as possible. They know Trump gets the blame if things don't work out. They are not on his side.
SPOT ON!
Well, FT, the Left wouldn't be the Left is they were supporting some of the outlandish stuff coming from Trump. And the Left has no great love for Hillary. If it weren't for parties and primaries, Bernie Sanders would probably be President right now! So, who is the Left now? Most of us? And who just lays back and "accepts" a temporal "defeat?" I give anyone credit for getting back in the fight. Besides, it's not about partisan wins and losses for most people, especially us Lefties. It's about right and wrong and the state of the country.
DeleteNow, the Dems SHOULD try to work with Trump where they can, as Ruddy points out above. And Trump in turn. We'll see. He hasn't offered them anything yet.
Silver, the problem with the "free market" here is there IS NO free market for insuring older or already ill people. The older you get, the riskier you get, to the point where there simply IS NO profitable market to be had there. If it was to be had, we'd have it. No one is stopping anyone from providing that service. They don't because it is not profitable. Sometimes that's the way life works. Free Markets are all well and fine - they are not a panacea, as Ruddy points out, in this case. They don't even exist.
Take this silly notion of having interstate private insurance sales (a race to the bottom if ever there could be one, and an answer to nothing). There IS NO federal law preventing states from doing that! No one is stopping them! The monopolies and duopolies and such in the insurance markets in the states are THEIR OWN CREATION. They were there like that BEFORE Obamacare. That's just what happens when you legalize bribery, which is essentially what we have now in our political campaign "system."
JMJ
Jersey,
DeleteI'm talking about the market for health care itself, not insurance. There are things the government could do to bring down the price of care itself. Do that enough, and make it a competitive market, and prices will come down. That is almost an iron law.
If we had a rational health care market, it would simplify insurance, and even negate the need for insurance to cover routine stuff.
How about THESE ideas for helping the public by cutting down the high cost of BUREAUCRACY, and putting more money into peoples' pockets?
ReplyDelete1. Make ALL expenses related to Medical Care –– including insurance premiums –– and every single ASPIRIN TABLET –– TAX-EXEMPT.
2. Make sure that no income under 35K is subject to TAXATION of ANY kind.
3. Make sure that ALL mortgage payments and ALL rent payments are TAX-DEDUCTIBLE.
4. Make sure the cost of GROCERIES and CAR MAINTENANCE are TAX EXEMPT.
5. ABOLISH SOCIAL SECURITY and replace it wth MANDATORY SAVINGS ACCOUNTS where one must put in the EQUIVALENT of what they would have had to pay into the Social Security Ponzi Scheme. Money accrued in these accounts could not be touched until age 65. The beauty of it would be that IF one died before age 65, the money would AUTOMATICALLY PASS to one's rightful heirs without FORFEIT of any kind.
6. Desperately poor people whose incomes fall below the poverty line SHOULD have their medical needs supplied by the government, and YES everyone of us who is solvent SHOULD contribute to their welfare.
Those who fail to take proper advantage of these opportunity to provide properly for THEMSELVES should be allowed to suffer the consequences. PERIOD!
FT,
DeleteMake sure the cost of GROCERIES and CAR MAINTENANCE are TAX EXEMPT.
I can't say that I agree with that. Too ripe for padding those costs.
Remember that the IRS does offer the individual exemption. Perhaps that amount should be raised.
I couldn't care less about that, AOW. As far as I'm concerned, the IRS should be ABOLISHED. The entire concept of an INCOME TAX was foisted on us by PROGRESSIVES in the first place 104 years ago. We've been going downhill as a "free" people ever since.
DeleteWhatever money we can manage to keep AWAY from the GOVERNMENT the better off we, as individuals will be.
Eliminate all tax deductions and enact a Fair Tax system or consumption tax.
DeleteExpand medicaid to cover people W/O the means to pay for insurance.
We pay for them now lets just make it the system.
The problem with the income tax idea, FT, is that households with income that low are not paying very much federal income tax if any at all. They're paying far more of their income in property taxes, even if indirectly, as renters. Things like fees and sales taxes hit them a lot harder, too.
DeleteThe idea of an income tax is sound. You pay, the employer pays, based on the transaction of work-for-pay. Make it progressive, in the mathematical sense, and it spreads the burden in a way that doesn't burden different disproportionately. And it gives, in a time of war or some other great catastrophe the government the ready ability to raise the money we need. As well, it prevents things like slave-labor and other such servitude, illegal labor (it could and should!), child labor, ill-gotten gains, etc. It gives us, the people, the ability to keep an eye on the employers and others, to make sure they're not up to no good. It isn't perfect, but it's better than turning a blind eye, lest we really become just like a Third World country.
This is not new, it wasn't invented by progressives. This goes long back through history, through sound thinking-through and tough decisions over centuries.
JMJ
Sorry to contradict you, Jersey, but the Federal Income tax was invented BY Progressives in 1913 –– the year my mother was born.
DeleteI am old enough to have known any number of people who were born in the NINETEENTH century, and who came of age BEFORE the Progressive Era. THEY were great people who were successful in dealing The American Dream largely BECAUSE there were so few of these government impediments to economic prosperity putting us in shackles back then.
I kid thee not, Jersey.
Ah, but the federal income tax in America is not the first income tax in history. The concept is very old. But we start to see it come into modern form at the national level roughly 200 years ago. In America, we raised an income tax for the Civil War, for instance.
DeleteRegardless, you are not addressing concerns about black market economies and such that are essentially subdued by regular taxation on the pay stub. And that's just one set of issues, albeit for me VERY serious. What about liens? Via the income tax, deadbeat fathers have had to cough up the cash, where back the good ol' days, they could just disappear. Not so easy today. What about proof of work? That does come up, and with an unscrupulous employer, how would you prove your work? How would you fund the military? A sales tax? A half-trillion dollar a year sales tax just for the military? And that's not going to include the VA, other GI benefits, wars... do you think the American consumer would go for that? (I suppose that's the one thing I like about it!)
It goes on. I think things through like the math guy I am. I am not swayed but political philosophy in this matter. That's why I want to get rid of corporate taxes almost entirely, charging just enough so that their regulation is afforded and no more, a few percent or so at most. It's math. Not philosophy. ;)
JMJ
All right, Jersey. The tax you refer to was levied to fund the Civil War, It was RESCINDED once the conflict was over. What OTHER countries and OTHER civilizations did in the past regarding taxation is of no importance to US WE were founded on RADICALLY different principles from any other nation in recorded history –– MAXIMUM FREEDOM for the INDIVIDUAL –– MINIMAL SUPERVISION. The USA –– as founded –– was supposed to be an ANTI-AUTHORITARIAN nation.
DeleteThe things you defend as virtuous, valuable, much-needed policies are ANATHEMA to my way of thinking.
The LESS supervision we have, the LESS interference we have, the LESS tribute we have to pay to a Ubiquitous, Almighty State the MORE productive, the more creative, the fairer and more decent we are apt to become.
I believe that. Apparently you don't. It's as simple as that. The difference between s is that I am more than willing to accept whatever consequences may come my way from MAXMUM LIBERTY for the INDIVIDUAL. I would prefer to be robbed, cheated, even physically assaulted by the occasional Bad Egg rather than trade an ounce of my God-given Liberty form some dubious promise of greater Security.
“When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
~ Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)
"They that can give up essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
~ Franklin (1706-1790)
TRUTH is TIMELESS, Jersey. It contains no expiration date.
Oh no, I'm sorry, I wasn't just talking about America. Income taxes, through history, date back to ancient China, Greece, and in various places and times over at least more than two thousand years. I'm not going to denigrate you and say, "Go wiki it," but the history of income taxation is old and diffuse. As a guy who's studied history to teach it (and dropped out and played rock music..., so, for whatever that's worth), but never stopped studying it (it's most of what I've read all my life and still do all the time), I do have another way of explaining this.
DeleteA simple example of widespread income tax has long been the "tithe," and it well-predates the church and modern religion. The idea was simple - you lived in a kingdom or a commune or a tribe or whatever you had at the time and place, you grew crops or raised cattle or made pottery or whatever, and you would donate some of what you made to the kingdom or tribe or clan leaders, who would then use the money to protect you, offer sacrifices or feasts or wine for various ceremonies and such, and if they were good leaders, they'd use the resources wisely to pay for improving the people's lives or store for future hard times. In other words, "income taxes" actually predate income!
I am all for your laudable goals of keeping government efficient and accountable, maximizing individual liberty, keeping the power of government as limited as possible, and finding ways of taxation that are the most ethical and fair and reasonable. But I do not see the Income Tax as a bad way of collecting taxes. And I certainly do not share your faith to turn a blind eye to the public sphere. Just when it comes to illegal immigration - think about that. Could you imagine the effect? They'd be literally floating over by the millions on Kon-tikis!
And you know me. I have never heard a philosophical "truth." Philosophy may never change, what is said is said, but the truth can change. Truth is what it is. The sun goes up everyday. But someday, the sun will die. Then it won't go up everyday anymore. Yet still, billions of years from now, some frustrated teenager on some distant planet will rationalize that if they just lowered the drinking age all would be well.
JMJ
Oh, and we are not "radically different" from "other countries." We are novel in some ways (the same could be said of the entire "New World," but certainly not that different. We are the product of all those who came before us. America was not invented out of whole cloth and is somehow completely different than everyone else. Our republic, our constitution, is actually a compromise of various interests utilizing ideas and influences from all throughout history and many different civilizations.
DeleteJMJ
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ReplyDeleteI don't want your Leftist Propaganda to pollute my blog, Canardo. You have freedom of speech, but not HERE. Go peddle your papers somewhere else, please –– perhaps a street corner in Boston would do, I don't care. I have no time to bother refuting the torrents of taradiddle you offer from the perspective of your demented, abysmally depressing parallel universe.
DeleteFT,
ReplyDeleteDid you happen to watch Lou Dobbs last night? HERE is a video excerpt about the leaked Paul Ryan audio.
More information at Lou Dobbs: Speaker Paul Ryan Should Resign.
It seems to me that Paul Ryan is all about himself and his career as a career politician instead of being a public servant.
I saw it, and I agree, AOW. I enjoy Dobbs's forthright no-holds-barred unabashed partisanship. He gets a little too full of himself at times –– as most of these pundits do sooner or later –– but in the main he's a refreshing treat for telling it the way HE truly believe it IS –– or OUGHT to be!
DeleteThe chances of Ryan's resigning, however, are slim to none. Still, I'm glad SOMEONE made the call in public. Ryan is a QUISLING.
What we must remember, however, is that MOST Republicans are ANYTHING-BUT "Conservative." I think most have become Neocon Globalists frankly.
Trump stands ALONE against cataclysmic forces conspiring against him every moment of ever day since he announced his intention to run for the presidency. I pray for him every day.
FT,
ReplyDeleteDesperately poor people whose incomes fall below the poverty line SHOULD have their medical needs supplied by the government, and YES everyone of us who is solvent SHOULD contribute to their welfare.
Actually, anyone with a health insurance policy is paying, in effect, a surcharge to cover the care of those who are destitute, and that surcharge is one of insurance's best kept, dirty little secrets.
Every day, hordes of the poor uninsured end up in emergency rooms, and these uninsureds are indeed treated on an emergency basis. For example, an uninsured person comes into the ER with a shattered forearm; he receives treatment, including an operation with pins ($25,000 surgery and meds) and is released. No hope of the hospital to recover any of those costs -- except via the invisible surcharges on the insurance premiums of those in the region who have bought insurance.
You see, insurance companies contract with local hospitals. BTW, that contract policy of insurance companies with local hospitals is one reason that buying insurance across state lines may not work.
FT,
ReplyDeleteI like your above proposals.
BUT
those must be deficit-affordable.
When the pool of "the takers" exceeds the pool of "the givers," the U.S. Treasury collapses. As does the American dollar. As does the stock market.
Without having to bear the burden of supporting these huge, overbearing, increasingly tyrannical government BUREAUCRACIES, who are supposed to HELP, but are in fact largely PARASITICAL I believe you would be surprised –– and frankly DELIGHTED –– at how much we could achieve ON OUR OWN if we didn't have to pay a massive annual TRIBUTE to the TYRANT that is the Federal Government.
DeleteCongress leads Trump down wrong path by Byron York:
ReplyDeleteNew to Washington and with no experience in public office, Trump has become a prisoner to the House Republican leadership — or more precisely, to the complicated procedural requirements of the House and Senate, and the judgment of the GOP...
Byron York is an old maid in pants. Always has been, always will be. I have never understood why anyone pays him the slightest attention. I think of him as The Poor Man's George Will –– ANOTHER tedious old fusspot with all the appeal of a four-day-old dead fish.
DeleteWith "friends" like Byron York conservatives don't need enemies.
I DESPISE naysayers on general principles. They function as domestic versions of Tokyo Rose.
FT,
DeleteByron York may be what you say. But he isn't always wrong with his opinions.
It seems to me that Congress (Ryan) is indeed trying to lead Trump down the wrong path.
That may well be, AOW, but I believe NEGATIVISM is always a poor policy when yu are involved in a dispute. "Warriors," if we must call them that, need tomb encouraged, cheered, bolstered and applauded. Downgrading one's own side is a sure fire recipe for FAILURE to WIN.
DeleteThat's why propaganda exists. Propaganda is not always a bad thing, unless the enemy uses it to DEMORALIZE those who fight former OWN side.Propaganda skillful applied is a NECESSARY TOOL for bringing energy and resolve to any kind of fight.
Anyone who thinks it is possible to prevail against unprincipled adversaries using Simon Pure morality and a strict, by-the-book application of "The Rules" is destined to LOSE. Winning takes every ounce of wit and wile we could muster.
We should never forget this maxim:
"ALL is FAIR in LOVE and WAR.{
FT,
DeleteDowngrading one's own side is a sure fire recipe for FAILURE to WIN.
Yes, but it is becoming more and more apparent to me that President Trump is indeed being led down the wrong path by the GOP itself. Or, at least, the GOP is working to do so. Paul Ryan is the leader of the present pack. It remains to be seen if President Trump can outmaneuver Ryan.
The AHCA so far appears to be the death knell for a 2020 White House. Do you disagree?
I don't disagree with your estimation of the roe the RINO Establishment has chosen to play. It s DESPICABLE, but I still have great faith in Donald Trump.
DeleteWe've been told for TWO SOLID YEARS that everything Mr. Trump proposed to do –– starting with getting the nomination –– was "impossible," and Mr. Trump proved "them" WRONG at every turn.
I doubt very much if is capable at ths stage of throwing in the towel. So far he's bucked nearly the ENTIRE WORLD, and SUCCEEDED in gaining his objectives i spite of massive opposition.
I have no reas]n to believe he won't be able to win THIS battle either. The man is a PHENOMENON the likes of which the political world has not seen since the early days of our founding and the days when the great industrial titans virtually CREATED the MODERN WORLD out of whole cloth in the post Civil War years.
Way back in high school we learned "Men only become heroes when they do not traffic with inevitables."
Mr. Trump appears to be just such a man.
If he should fail, God forbid, it won't be because he did not make every possible effort to succeed. We can't expect more than that from any man.
FT,
DeleteMr. Trump proved "them" WRONG at every turn.
Yes, he has!
I have no reas]n to believe he won't be able to win THIS battle either.
It's major WARFARE -- and even those who are supposed to be on his side (the GOP) are not really on his side. Backstabbings galore!
Time will tell if he can prevail in all this.
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ReplyDeleteNo one could POSSIBLY be as STUPID as you appear, Miss Pee Pee, so we have no alternative, but to credit you with an astonishing degree of sheer MALEVOLENCE teetering on the brink of TREASON.
DeleteIf we WERE what you and your cohorts in criminal insanity so fervently want to BELIEVE we are, YOU and all your rotten, stinking, disloyal, ungrateful kind would have been rounded up, put in concentration camps, brutally tortured, then systematically EXTERMINATED long ago.
Instead you are free to POLLUTE every space you enter, and our only defense against your disgusting incursions is either to tell you what you are, and make fun of you, better yet –– DELETE your vicious idiocy.
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ReplyDeleteSorry, Sal, but comments MUST relate to the topic of the post in order to be acceptable. Please come back when yu have something to say about the Repeal and Replacement of Obamacare –– hopefully some POSITIVE ideas in how we might improve the system.
DeleteFor what it's worth, HERE is a short video comparing ObamaCare (ACA) with RyanCare (AHCA).
ReplyDeleteI hope that you can access it.
Yes, I could. Thank you.
DeleteMark Twain said was needs to be said perfectly:
Lies –– God-Damned Lies –– and STATISTICS!
Another hideous government sponsored boondoggle in the making, if ever I saw one.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteI would not trust the CBO report on their own underwear.
ReplyDeleteI would not have voted for Paul Ryan, so why would I now entrust him to be running the show? No sir, I do not trust him to act in the best interest of the average citizen.
ReplyDeleteAHCA is poised to accomplish only one good thing - it'll showcase nicely how ObamaCare was not nearly as crappy as the GOP ranted for years. It also does a good job of showing just how ill-prepared the Reps were to actually sit in the driver's seat.
It's been said before, but bears repeating... they had nearly 8 years to craft an alternative and this was the best, most comprehensive, and equitable solution they could collectively design?
No one could ever sccuse the GOP of being overly bright.
DeleteIt's disappointng to see how few addressed the questions in this post, and even more disappointing that no one even hazarded a guess in reponse to the first and last questions.
ReplyDeleteSuch is life! I guess. ):^{