Ill-Phrased Though It Be
This Question is Not as Silly as Liberals
May Want It to Sound.
I Think It Deserves to be Answered.
Monday, December 1, 2014
50 comments:
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Are you saying Willie Wonka deserved to die? LOL!
ReplyDeleteIt is asking quite a bit. Very interesting. Something for almost anyone to question.
JMJ
Liberals rarely -- if ever -- object to abortions. In fact, some liberals are fine and dandy with late-term abortions.
ReplyDeleteHad Michael Brown continued his assault and battery on Officer Wilson, would Officer Wilson be alive today? Would he be severely disabled -- brain dead, perhaps?
There are various accounts as to what happened that night in Ferguson. Forensic evidence supports Officer Wilson's account, however.
And it turns out that that "the forensic expert" who got all the "Hand up, don't shoot" chant, wasn't a forensics expert at all. See HANDS UP, DON'T TELL THE TRUTH: CNN Discovers Mike Brown Autopsy Expert Is Not a Professor or a Doctor.
I have no idea how or why Gene Wilder got into this particular act, but the question raised was interesting in itself -- and could be interpreted as coming from either the liberal OR the conservative angle.
ReplyDeleteThe Left has gone into paroxysms righteous indignation, because a young BLACK man was killed by a WHITE police officer. That is because the Left wants to focus almost exclusively on RACE or SEX in its almost maniacal drive to force government-generated standards of "FAIRNESS" and "DECENCY" on the land.
In its relentless drive to acquire permanent ascendancy and dictatorial power the Left has become obsessed with its own agenda-driven notions of EQUALITY, which completely ignore, or often appear downright hostile to considerations of QUALITY.
Self-styled "Christian Conservatives," many of whom also cherish not-so-secret desires to dictate public policy, get up in arms over ABORTION, which is -- any way you slice it -- the willful murder of a yet-unborn human being, but they ALSO want to ignore considerations of QUALITY.
In this case Michael Brown is being used as a SYMBOL to illustrate two divergent points of view one of which either should or should not be accepted UNIVERSALLY.
Viewed simplistically, the Right is falsely portrayed as believing Michael Brown DESERVED to DIE for committing a relatively mild offense primarily because he was BLACK.
This is nonsense, of course, but it makes a good story, and the Left is happy to use it -- just as they are happy to exploit ANY plausible issue or event -- to advance their ruthless quest for Absolute Power.
The implication in the Gene Wilder Poster seems to be that the Right favors the LIFE of a FOETUS over that of any INDEPENDENT specimen of humanity -- but especially when that specimen happens to be black.
The fallacy embedded in that willful misinterpretation lies in the Left's belief that Christian Conservatives would be fanatical in their support of an unborn BLACK child's God-given RIGHT to LIVE.
Does the Left REALLY expect the public to believe that the Right believes that human rights cease to exist for a BLACK person once he escapes the womb?
What do YOU think about THIS particular set of issues and implications?
Fetus' rob stores and attack their abortion doctors? Who knew?
ReplyDeleteAnd not a peep from the media........because its not white on black crime!!
ReplyDeleteA St. Louis Teens Beat Bosnian Driver to Death With Hammers The Gateway Pundit
Dead guy was a Bosnian taxi driver.........and evidently, the Bosnian community is pissed. Would be nice for a change to see some whites say fuck you and protest themselves. Id join them in a heartbeat if I lived anywhere near there.
So.....here we go again.......savages being savages.
We don't have a police problem............we have a race problem
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ReplyDeleteIt is NOT a "race" problem. It is a deadly situation caused first by a succession of unfortunate developments -- the deep resentment in the South over the War of Northern Aggression, -- the fear-based activities of the Ku Klux Klan, --the horrors of Reconstruction, followed by -- the Jim Crowe laws which in turn were seized upon by the machinations of self-righteous, power mad leftists and transformed into the ravages and abuses of LEFTIST DEMAGOGUERY.
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ReplyDeleteI guess I can answer it, Silver, but the question leaves out a pretty significant player - the mother! If she felt she needed an abortion, then yes. It's not the way I would put it, but there it is. I'm not a theocrat like you guys, so what do you want from me? The "life" of an insentient embryo is not same as the life of a real live human being.
ReplyDeleteJMJ
My opinion: the idea of a fetus "deserving" something is a category error.
ReplyDeleteA fetus is a human being, and therefore has an inherent right to life. That is not a religious argument; it is a humanist one.
ReplyDeleteWe all understand that medically, a fetus is not a fully-formed human, but she does have a genome, a fact unknown at the time or Roe v. Wade.
If you read the decision and notes, you will see that the court mentions that if a fetus did in fact have a genome, it would be game over: An abortion would be tantamount to destroying human life
"If this suggestion of personhood is established, the appellant's case, of course, collapses, [p157] for the fetus' right to life would then be guaranteed specifically by the Amendment."
Source: Cornell Law - Roe v Wade
My position is well-known, and we've had some fine donnybrooks over it:
Abortion and Contraception: A Humanist Approach
Abortion is Infanticide
And just for extra fun, here's a related post where we all had a ball cussing and discussing the issue of life.
Life: Ten Universal Principles
Ahhh... Those were the days. It made me nostalgic reading back through the comment threads.
All well and god, but we're losing sight of the life of a foetus v. the life of a person like Michael Brown, and WHY liberals and feel there is a difference in intrinsic VALUE between the two.
ReplyDeleteThere's nothing wrong with white women killing white babies or black women killing black babies. It's only bad when white women are killing black babies. :P
ReplyDeleteWait, white women don't kill white babies, either.
ReplyDeleteSilver: I skimmed the linked article at Cornell law and could find no reference to genetics, genomes or chromosomes, and scant reference to biology.. I don't know the law well, but I'm not sure that it identifies "personhood" with the possession of a complete genome as you do. (don't flakes of dandruff and tumours have complete genomes too?)
ReplyDeleteI don't know the history of genomics in much detail either, but I know that mitosis & meiosis were discovered in the 19th century, and we were counting chromosomes back in the 20s, so I'd imagine that by the early 70s we'd have known that foetuses carry a complete set of chromosomes.
I can only reassert my dissatisfaction with the failure of nearly everyone to address the point of thus exercise which was neither Abortion per se nor "Race Relations" as such, but why the LEFT in general places an especially high value on ONE example of human life while choosing to disregard the significance of others -- many of them victims of vicious, ferocious, totally unwarranted criminal assault.
ReplyDeletePlease let me share part of a letter written just last night to a lifelong friend in California, who had reported the brutal murder of a white man by black thugs in Oakland:
"Why is the death of Michel Brown in Ferguson, MO so much more important than scores of other deaths many of which were perpetrated by vicious thugs against totally innocent people?
"Why has Brown's death drawn such a disproportionate amount of media attention?
"Why has it been made into a cause celebre by Civil Rights Agitators, and moved Attorney General Eric Holder, other high level government officials, and our illustrious president to involve themselves directly, ostentatiously and inappropriately in a NON-FEDERAL matter?
"There could only be one answer, and I'm here to tell you it has nothing to do with genuine concern for "justice" or heartfelt grief over Michael Brown's sad fate.
"We have become a demented society, and we must get past seeing "racism" behind every bush, every tree, and around every corner, or we won't be able to survive intact much longer.
"Worst of all these issues cause so many decent Americans to despise one another, because they can't agree on how to find solutions for these pressing problems. I wish I knew what to do, but all I can say is, please let us try, as individuals, not to add to the misery and torment."
Jez,
ReplyDeleteWhy can't you see that as soon as the sperm penetrates the egg and embryonic development begins all the elements Nature requires to generate a fully developed human being are present?
Is it that you prefer to believe that a human life is not worth anything unless and until is is conscious, aware, and capable of functioning on its own and able to make choices for itself?
I used to believe that, myself, until I realized that a foetus had within it the full capacity to emerge as another Plato, Aristotle, Michelangelo, Beethoven, Dickens, Bess of Hardwicke, Tolstoy, Maupassant, Eli Witney, Churchill, Alexander Fleming, Karl Marx, Adolf Hitler, Jonas Salk, Ted Bundy, Charles Manson, Barack Obama or Michael Brown. ;-)
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ReplyDeleteJez: I am neither a geneticist nor a lawyer. I base my comments on what I have researched, so I have relied on others for the basis of my statements.
ReplyDeleteI imagine this could have been a line of argumentation, and yes, dandruff flakes do have genomes, but they are just flakes. They don't have organs, limbs and all the other things that make up the human body.
So, I think that the genome knowledge would have been one more piece of the legal argument.
Now, back to FreeThinke's question, before he whacks us with his cane. ;-)
ReplyDeleteAny minority is superior to any white European, with Bill Clinton being one of the few exceptions
Minorities and women who are liberal are noble; those who are conservative are stupid, traitors, etc.
Any religion is superior to Christianity...
Trying to understand liberals is like trying to understand the ravings of a crazy man. Impossible and futile.
This is brought to high relief when something like the The Catcall Video goes viral and it sets off a hilarious spate of over-intellectualizing by leftists:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/10/31/catcalling_what_hollaback_s_viral_video_reveals_about_white_men_and_street.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/07/women-of-color-respond-viral-catcalling-video_n_6123800.html
Feminist activists created a video showing how a woman can't walk down the street in New York without suffering catcalls, whistles and lewd propositions.
The problem was, most of the cads in the video were minorities, sparking a hilarious catfight over which special category trumped the other, women or men of color?
This, in a nutshell, explains the logical incoherence of liberalism, so-called.
Charles Cooke at National Review had the absolute best summation of the entire farce and the noisy aftermath:
How the Far Left Hijacked a Cat-Calling Debate And Started to Eat Itself
I was going to do a blog post on it, but Cooke covered it all so comprehensively and humorously, he left me nothing more to say.
I've not studied it so this is almost entirely guess-work, but it looks to me like the Brown case is unremarkable in itself, but is being used to represent the systemic failure of the police to represent or serve certain communities.
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ReplyDeleteAgreed.
DeleteThe American, White man’s society is to blame for waiting until there are riots in the streets to take notice of a crisis that has been festering in the Black community for years if not decades. No one gives a fuck if the cops can beat the hell out of a Black man and shoot Black people arbitrarily and get away with it but let a brick get thrown through a storefront window, or a store gets looted and people lose their fucking mind over it..
ReplyDeleteObama met with several Black leaders of the Ferguson protest movement today in the White House, and the white community gets a hemorrhage because the Rev. Al Sharpton was present.
Michael Brown did steal a box of cigars from a local convenient store that afternoon, just prior to the shooting. For that, he should have been arrested, tried and, if found guilty, convicted and sentenced to 10 days of community service like any white man would have gotten, not shot to death like a wild animal.
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing wrong with racial profiling. There, I said it, so what, it’s the truth, so deal with it. . Profiling based on race, gender, or any other attribute, is a natural way yjat society works. Our brains tell us what to think by gathering past experiences and condensing them down to create "profiles" of how we expect things to be. We are smart enough to realize that not every experience will fit into these profiles - but many of them do. There is nothing wrong with this - and the ability to draw quick conclusions helps us in many aspects of our lives.
We are not born with the racial profile of black people being more likely to commit crimes, but the facts are right there to prove that it’s true. . This is a profile that people create in their minds over time due to their experiences, and, simply, the facts. If we look at the number of homicides, rapes, stolen cars, robberies, committed in the United States, over 55% of offenders were black and only 30% were white, the rest were Hispanic, etc. . Seems pretty equal, right? The kicker is that blacks make up only 12% of the total population during this time period, while whites made up 80%. This shows that statistically, your average Black person was much more likely to commit a homicide than your average white person. This might be uncomfortable to hear, but facts are facts. In addition, it's also more likely that a black man would commit a homicide than a black woman. The facts tell us this, too. Over time, our brains gather this information and form a judgment based on fact - black people are more likely to be murderers. Does this mean that every black man is going to commit homicide? Of course not. But it is a rational judgment, based on facts, that helps us make sense of our world. Ben Jealous, the president of the NAACP, said about the Trayvon Martin story on Meet the Press: "And so it would be a mistake for us to say this is simply about some lone racist or it's just about racists. This is about a culture in which black men are seen as more suspicious..." Yes, Ben, they are.
The fact is that Blacks commit a vastly greater share of violent crimes in proportion to their numbers than others do. Another fact unassailable in my view is that a style of swagger and smoldering rage is deeply embedded now in black urban street culture. Not all black culture and certainly not all blacks. But in pop cultural icons, in sports, in film, in music, and among young black males in particular. Cops are put into that world to contain it - from the rest of us, including all the smarmy, preening superstars of the media lecturing the rest of us and the cops who protect them for their flaws. Let them look to their own and leave the rest of us out of it.
Obama, Al Sharpton and Holder are as always missing the point of Ferguson........as usual. But tens of millions of Whites get it, And the grand jury’s decision in not indicting Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson for killing suspect Michael Brown, was a fair and accurate decision and for good reason based on the “real” evidence and the “real” eye whiteness’s. When people lie about the facts of Ferguson, they are revealed as lying demagogues. The bad news is, their lies can only be countered with the truth, not with the deadly force that they try to incite. Yes, there are millions all over America that believe Brown was surrendering with his hands up. Even those ignorant members of the Rams football team.
But the irony is that if Brown had surrendered with his hands up, he would still be alive today.
Attack a cop, grab for his gun, and you deserve to die.
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ReplyDeleteHi Sue!
ReplyDeleteThe impostor did do a pretty good job sounding like you...
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ReplyDeleteThe problem is Sue , you can't unring a bell. Now there are millions of ignorant Blacks all over America that believe Brown was surrendering with his hands up. Even the ignorant members of the Rams football team.
ReplyDeleteIrony is that if Brown had surrendered with his hands up, he would still be alive today.
The only person here who is NOT a victim is Michael Brown. He us a perp on multiple crimes, including attacking a police officer.
The word "racist" has taken on ritual incantation-like functions for those who want to blame this all on Wilson and race. It is a sign of how language has come to trump reality itself in the construction of the narrative of this incident. Supposedly, we are told, Wilson, confronting a large angry man in the street and NOT a “Gentle Giant” , and having the duty to protect the community from him, exaggerated the danger that man posed because of the racial stereotypes he, Wilson, carried in his head - and for which the word "demon" functions as our "ah-ha" evidence - or does so for the media, in droves, a media otherwise utterly disinterested in evidence of all sorts.
In my view, Officer Wilson was perfectly rational to call to mind a term like "THUG" to fortify and alert himself to the danger he and the community faced in Brown. And I say this perfectly well aware that race may have played a part in shaping his perception of Brown around this particular term. So what? Race is in fact a realistic element in sizing up such threatening people in places like Ferguson, sadly enough. No less a light than Jesse Jackson supplied us with a perfect example years ago, when he admitted he felt safer knowing the men following him on a dark street one night were white, not black. It was not racist for him to say so or think so, it was plainly realistic for him to factor race into his emotional response to that setting. Likewise for Wilson.
And it will only come from people like Sharpton and Obama, who’s community has the habit of blaming whites for all their travails.
Michael Brown was a thug who committed four crimes in one short period of time. Officer Wilson is the victim in this case, not Michael Brown. Michael Brown was the Thug who was out just looking for trouble that day, and he found it.
Yes, Sue and company, he “was” a THUG.
Sue,
ReplyDeleteGlad to see you're the same old vulgar, id-driven, fulminating volcano of leftwing bullshit you've always been.
Are you sure you are not Ed Schultz in drag?
Funny how these leftist bloggers are pandering to the uninformed, without a shred of evidence they all believe that he Brown had has hands up and said “Don’t Shoot”.
ReplyDeletelJust like these lberals calling for a uprising against the state, and looking to burn down everything in sight, . It’s all these Black liberals who are turning againts these merchants fastfood joints, and of course Walmarts, turning over police cars, and blowing cops away to start a revolution, because Brown’s Step Fathers is running around inciting these riots.
This is similar to the Trayvon Martin story that he was executed while on his knees. One jerk says so and lots of these uninformed jerkoffs believe it
It's funny that people seem to have hours upon hours to march in a protest, but not the few minutes it would take to actually learn the events that actually happened.
The violence in this country almost always comes from the left. Ask the Weather Underground, the Black Panthers, or the bunch that hang around the Barber Shops..
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ReplyDeleteLate Breaking News!
ReplyDeleteMichael Brown, that POS’s stepfather says he's sorry for his emotional "burn it down!" outburst to the Black Animals who demonstrated after learning a police officer wouldn't be indicted in the “Un-Armed” Gentle Giant’s death. But he says he's unfairly taking the heat for the rioting that followed. Well Boo Hoo. Now you can BURN!
I see it was a mistake t let "Sue's" comment stand as a characteristic example of leftist spite and irrationality.
ReplyDeleteWhen confronted with material of this sort, it is best to ignore it, or if you fee you must respond, to counter it with positive assertion of guiding principles that refute or at least help neutralize comments like "Sue's" by implication.
"A soft answer turneth away wrath."
Necromancer, everything you said is factual, but in dealing purely with facts instead of Truth we make the great mistake of thinking in terms of Group Identities and Statistical Norms and Probabilities instead of looking at each human being as an INDIVIDUAL.
ReplyDeleteAs you, yourself, rightly indicated, there are many black men who are NOT prone to violence and anti-social behavior, so it is grossly unfair to treat ALL black men with suspicion and implicit resentment.
COLLECTIVIST thinking fails to serve the interests of Truth and Justice at eery conceivable level. A good rule of thumb would be Never ASSUME Anything.
Any attitude or philosophical outlook that tends to promote suspicion, fear, resentment, anxiety and truculence while exacerbating tensions is unhealthy for society and every individual in it.
Moonbat Spanker, I agree with most of what you said, and like the way you said it, but I still think, as G&S famously said:
ReplyDelete"The object all sublime is to make the punishment fit the crime"
Being shot to DEATH in the street for petty theft, jaywalking and even resisting arrest seems unduly severe. I wish we could know EXACLY what happened from the moment Officer Wilson accosted Michael Brown.
Not trying to excuse Brown OR cast aspersions at Wilson, just wish we had had the chance to see things in proper proportion and perspective. Unfortunately, the self-serving maneuvers of professional prevaricators, distortionists and mythmakers prevail, and Truth gets slapped in the face and kicked in the shins yet again.
No Indictment in Eric Garner Case?
ReplyDeleteSo now what? Will the fucking Nazi scumbags burn down New York?
Damn, and I wanted to see the Tree lighting ceremony, with Lady Gaga!!
When will the liberal media would stop perpetuating left wing lies and propaganda. This officer did NOT put garner in a "choke hold."
ReplyDeleteThe officer used a hold that most police officers in the U.S. are trained in called a "carotid artery hold." The C.A. hold does not involve any "choking", whatsoever. The airway is completely unrestricted during the application of the hold which pinches the carotid arteries and causes the violently resisting suspect to go unconscious after less than 20 seconds and remain unconscious just long enough to get handcuffs on him.
The carotid artery hold is humane and can be used to subdue a resisting suspect without the use more severe physical force. It has saved thousands of suspects AND officers from injury.
Garner was morbidly obese. He had diabetes and asthma, and most likely a druggy . His fat body couldn’t take the fighting with the officer and suffered a heart attack. Nothing that the officer did was responsible for Garner's death....and he did NOT apply a "choke hold."
No matter what Obama and Di Blasio says.
Bottom line: When a Cop says Stop and put your hands up!!! Do It!
The Tea-Party Samurai:
ReplyDeleteYou are mostly correct, and your description of the hold is accurate, but in common parlance of MMA and jujitsu, it is called a choke hold, even though it functions as you describe.
Western Hero will be addressing the death of Mr. Garner tomorrow, Friday 5 December.
Don't you think the police were being a litle over-zealous in bothering to enforce a stupid, probably unconstitutional law banning the private sale of CIGARETTES on the streets of Staten Island?
ReplyDeleteSurely they have better things to do with their time -- like catching vandals thieves, rapists, murderers, kidnappers, and b;ackmailers, etc.
KILLING somebody merely for being SUSPECTED of selling a LEGAL product secondhand to try to make a few extra bucks seems preposterous -- even OBSCENE.
Yeah yeah, I know the poor fool RESISTED ARREST. I probably would have too under the circumstances. The Garner case is NOTHING like Ferguson, except on the most superficial level.
I'm sorry but it's clear as crystal to me. We simply MUST allow Negroes to do ANYTHING ad EVERYTHING they WANT to do without ANY interference whatsoever, until THEY feel the great DEBT we owe them has finally been paid in full..
I do wonder, however, if even THAT would satisfy the Marxian-Fabian-Socialist-Communist-Liberal-Progressive-Statist-Dictocrats, don't you?
This is a game that will only end after we die.
FT,
ReplyDeleteDon't you think the police were being a litle over-zealous in bothering to enforce a stupid, probably unconstitutional law banning the private sale of CIGARETTES on the streets of Staten Island?
There you have hit on something there that I'm just now having time to type in....
Where did that law banning the sale of individual cigarettes come in the first place?
Why aren't people calling for the immediate repeal of such IDIOTIC AND OPPRESSIVE laws?
Officers on the street do not choose which laws to enforce. Rather, officers on the street are ordered by their superiors to enforce certain laws -- particularly during sting operations.
I have two questions:
ReplyDelete1. This sting operation was supervised by a black police sergeant -- a woman, I believe. She watched the sting operation go down and didn't stop the police officers under her command. Why didn't she stop them?
2. Eric Garner already had some 35 previous arrests on his record. What were those arrests for?
AOW: His arrests were for petty crimes and misdemeanors going back to his youth. He did have an assault and one or more robbery charges many years ago, but he was know in his neighborhood and to the police as a non-violent petty criminal.
ReplyDeleteI blog about this today at Western Hero
"Officers on the street do not choose which laws to enforce. Rather, officers on the street are ordered by their superiors to enforce certain laws -- particularly during sting operations."
ReplyDeletePerhaps so, but isn't that the exact same argument Nazis' used to defend -- or explain away -- their atrocious conduct after they were defeated and held accountable at the end of WWII?
FT,
ReplyDeleteDo not misunderstand my comment. I do not excuse that officer.
However, what about the sergeant? She just stood there and didn't order the officer to stand down?
Why wasn't she brought up on charges? Could it be because she is black?
What about the higher ups at the NYPD? A sting operation is supposed to be ordered from a higher level than sergeant, isn't it?
FT,
ReplyDeleteBTW, today I posted something about the death of Eric Garner. Please stop by to read the link.