tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post5879215484623998209..comments2023-10-17T08:19:58.196-04:00Comments on FreeThinke: FreeThinkehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16682678301019952436noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-32402633490579968622014-07-21T08:30:04.832-04:002014-07-21T08:30:04.832-04:00Once more with feeling:
"As has so often bee...Once more with feeling:<br /><br /><b>"As has so often been the case in the past we shall simply have to agree to disagree, and let it go at that. We really do work on different 'operating systems,' and seem doomed either to run along parallel lines or in opposite directions in too many areas."</b><br /><br />You don't particularly like Mozart, but you do find things to admire about Hip Hop, and you expect me to take you <i>seriously?</i> Words fail me.<br /><br />We are just not each other's kind of people. I don't know how I could put it more clearly. FreeThinkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16682678301019952436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-83549982919282404652014-07-19T15:59:14.491-04:002014-07-19T15:59:14.491-04:00Well, I honestly didn't feel it was off topic ...Well, I honestly didn't feel it was off topic (you did intend some unfavourable comparison, didn't you?) and, be fair, I doubt I'd be a contender for the prize for wondering off topic around here!<br /><br />btw, I know you aren't interested that I don't like Mozart, that was my point! Such an opinion is of no value to his enthusiasts.<br /><br />Last reply, I promise. You can have the last word after this if you want it.jeznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-15637258145288297022014-07-19T08:40:10.360-04:002014-07-19T08:40:10.360-04:00I shall try, but I assure you I have "'ex...I shall try, but I assure you I have "'explored" the sights and sounds of any number of cultural expressions I find repugnant including "hip-hop", and have dismissed them -- not out of prejudice -- but from (notably unpleasant) experience.<br /><br />At any rate, THIS thread was SUPPOSED to have been about Mozart and Mrs. Lhevinne and the clear and convincing evidence that both achieved a kind of Eternal Youth, despite their obvious mortality. It was presented as an ANTIDOTE to the previous discussion, and you chose to try to cointinue the argument from the other thread after tellung us you didn't particularly care for Mozart.<br /><br />If only we COULD "see ourselves as others see us," a great deal of misunderstanding and unkindness would doubtless result -- even if the suicide rate rose precipitously. ;-) FreeThinkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16682678301019952436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-85520432712427751262014-07-19T04:30:44.542-04:002014-07-19T04:30:44.542-04:00I have nowhere suggested that you abandon your aes...I have nowhere suggested that you abandon your aesthetic, just that you greet others with more curiosity than (premature) judgement, to put it in your terms.<br />If you had a commenter who criticised your every sonnet on the grounds that it failed as a haiku, I would wish to appraise her of the difference between the two forms and encourage her to either judge your sonnets as a sonnet, and not as a haiku, or else to cease her incessant irrelevancies. I am convinced that it would in no way diminish her devotion to the haiku form to follow my suggestions.jeznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-36863749494122746992014-07-18T14:51:09.266-04:002014-07-18T14:51:09.266-04:00As has so often been the case in the past we shall...As has so often been the case in the past we shall simply have to agree to disagree, and <i>let it go</i> at that. We really do work on different 'operating systems,' and seem doomed either to run along parallel lines or in opposite directions in too many areas.<br /><br />I have no idea why Go chose to divide mankind into several, markedly different racial groups with profoundly different characteristics, but He did. Whether right or wrong, no one could deny that that alone has caused no end of terrible trouble.<br /><br />People in general rarely fail to feel suspicious, resentful and hostile to anything perceived as "alien" or notably "different." Believe it o<br />not I am not like that. I have always felt the differences in culture, behavior, custpms, mores and appearance were fascinating. It would never occur to me to want to go out of my way to hurt, exploit -- and certainly not to <i>annihilate</i> -- anyone unlike my own ethnic group.<br /><br />Where you and I part company, however, is my insistence that I have as much right as anyone of a different race or religious background to assert MY identity - <i>especially in in my OWN country</i> -- and want to preserve, protect and defend MY particular ethnicity, cultural and religious heritage, and AESTHETIC with as much pride as anyone else.<br /><br />I do believe in the words of Robert Frost in Mending Wall "good fences make good neighbors." I believe in the sanctity of private property, and freedom of assembly.<br /><br />I am fully prepared to respect and even enjoy anyone else's ways AS LONG AS THEY DO NOT IMPINGE UPON MY WAY of LIFE or attempt to REFASHION IT in <i>THEIR</i> IMAGE.<br /><br />That the Vikings, the Romans, the Huns, the Goths and the Visigoths, Genhis Khan, then England, France, Spain and Portugal, Germany,and Japan did exactly that all over the world in ages past and not so ,ong ago does NOT meant that <i>I</i> am in any way responsible for THEIR misconduct, and frankly I'm sick to death and mad as a wet hen at the incessant drumbeat that as told me all my life that I am.<br /><br />All <i>I</i> want is to live and let live. PERIOD. Agitators, reformers and "revolutionaries" make me sick.<br /><br />FreeThinkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16682678301019952436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-68667208561794563912014-07-18T12:44:51.400-04:002014-07-18T12:44:51.400-04:00You're entitled to your feelings, although I&#...You're entitled to your feelings, although I'd rather avoid reading your racist fantasies (which power is entirely mine, don't restrain yourself on my account) -- I think it's clear enough that those feelings are substantially unrelated to anything I've said to you.jeznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-411892531424459282014-07-18T12:14:26.599-04:002014-07-18T12:14:26.599-04:00Now, I hope you understand that I bear YOU no ill ...Now, I hope you understand that I bear YOU no ill will in graphically describing my feelings regarding this particular matter in this particular context? FreeThinkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16682678301019952436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-74146710442453005492014-07-18T12:12:08.601-04:002014-07-18T12:12:08.601-04:00I'm sorry if I misunderstood your intentions, ...I'm sorry if I misunderstood your intentions, Jez. HOWEVER, introducing an area of music which I certainly HAVE examined, and made clear I have find grotesque, offensive to good taste and downright repulsive, seems too much like attending a formal dinner, unwashed and ungroomed a nd uinvited, in ragged jeans and a stained sweatshirt where the best in food and wine are being served to a formally attired assemblage on the finest china, with antique silver cutlery, starched white napery and fresh cut flowers artfully arranged, and then announcing, <i><b>" This here shindig is stuffy and boring. You all would have just as good a time -- probably better -- if you'd get real, come down off your high horses, strip off those stupid fancy clothes, go out in the yard, get in touch with the dirt, drink beer, and grill your own hamburgers and hot dogs."</b></i><br /><br />This disruptive Will Rogers Act might amuse some, but it wouldn't go down well with me, -- well meant or not -- especially if I'd planned, and paid for the party, and hired a well-known string quartet to play after dinner in the music room.<br /><br />Another apt parallel might be if someone came up to me at a social gathering and announced -- in front of my beautiful, beloved blonde wife -- <b><i>"You two just don't know how to live. You ought to get down and dirty, smoke some weed, and go to a multi-racial, bisexual orgy. You've never lived till you've been fvcked by a big black buck. It would do both of you a world of good. It's time you found out what life is really all about. Now don't you look at me like that, I'm only trying to exapnd your horizons."</i></b>FreeThinkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16682678301019952436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-21607919297866932952014-07-18T11:35:32.625-04:002014-07-18T11:35:32.625-04:00Miss Shaw's assertions about Opera's being...Miss Shaw's assertions about Opera's being primaruly a popular medium in Europe are only partially true.<br /><br />Clearly the origins of all important music -- both sacred and secular -- came from the sponsorship of either The Church or wealthy, powerful aristocrats with a particilar interest in Music and Art, etc.<br /><br /><b>From WIKI's article on Monteverdi's Orfeo (edited by FT) <br /><br /><i>.. in 1590 or 1591, Monteverdi secured a post as a viola player at Duke Vincenzo Gonzaga's court at Mantua. Through ability and hard work Monteverdi rose to become Gonzaga's maestro della musica in 1601 ...<br /><br />Vincenzo Gonzaga's particular passion for musical theatre and spectacle grew from his family connections with the court of Florence. ... Towards the end of the 16th century innovative Florentine musicians were developing the intermedio—a long-established form of musical interlude inserted between the acts of spoken dramas—into increasingly elaborate forms. <br /><br />Led by Jacopo Corsi, these musucal fihures were responsible for the first work generally recognised as “opera:” Dafne, composed by Corsi and Jacopo Peri and performed in Florence in 1598,. combined elements of madrigal singing and monody with dancing and instrumental passages to form a dramatic whole. Only fragments of its music still exist, but several other Florentine works of the same period— ... Peri's Euridice and Giulio Caccini's identically titled Euridice—survive complete. These last two works were the f precursors of Monteverdi's L'Orfeo, the first known complete opera still performed today.<br /><br />The Gonzaga court had a long history of promoting dramatic entertainment. A century before Duke Vincenzo's time the court had staged Angelo Poliziano's lyrical drama La favola di Orfeo, at least half of which was sung rather than spoken. ...</i></b> ...<br /><br />Without the Church and the aristocracy -- and later the patronage of wealthy, highly successful businessmen -- Western Culture, as we know and admire it, would never have been able to get a leg on game.<br /><br />While it's true that much of the melodic material used by composers of sacred music and by those who wrote great symphonies, sonatas, tone poems and operas, etc. came from Folk Tunes, the highly developed. complex pieces we revere today could hardly be said to belong to The Folk.<br /><br />The object of serious composers is usually to do their best to transform the Ordinary into something akin to the Divine.<br /><br />It's a great mistake, however, to think that the tremendous treasure trove of serious music we have spannung about eight centuries was never meant to be enjoyed by all who have an ear for it. that's nonsense, even if most of what we treasure WAS made possible by the patronage of rich and powerful institutions and individuals.<br /><br />FreeThinkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16682678301019952436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-83373140965612976752014-07-18T07:31:26.460-04:002014-07-18T07:31:26.460-04:00I don't object in the least, my only disappoin...I don't object in the least, my only disappointment is that my intentions, which were positive, friendly and gentle, have so badly failed. I was maybe overexcited, but only because I felt I had discovered the key (a single key!) which would unlock a thousand doors for you. I make no apology for wishing to see you freed from your cultural exile.<br /><br />Those remarks of mine which remain are, I hope, easily distinguishable from cold pee or equivalent, etc.jeznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-83821689825041928922014-07-16T07:19:12.602-04:002014-07-16T07:19:12.602-04:00An underused word for us to know and treasure:
R...An underused word for us to know and treasure:<br /><br /><br /><b>REBARBATIVE<br /><br />unattractive and objectionable:<br /><br />irritating; repellent: prickly, spiteful<br /><br />fearsome; forbidding<br /><br />repellent, irritating<br /><br />unpleasant, forbidding, grim</b><br /><br />I'll leave it up to your fertile imagination to contemplate and then decide how it might apply to the discussion.<br /><br />Other words that might prove useful could be captious, disputatious, pejorative, petulant, disdainful, insidious, malodorous, intransigent, -- Carry on!<br />FreeThinkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16682678301019952436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-11839105712182005392014-07-16T07:10:10.964-04:002014-07-16T07:10:10.964-04:00Some may notice the removal of several comments, a...Some may notice the removal of several comments, and find that objectionable. I'm sorry, but I found those remarks objectionable, myself, and I'll tell you why. <br /><br />Very simply I found them insolent, combative, personally offensive, and contrary to the purpose of this particular post. <br /><br />I had hoped to share a few moments of light, and joy -- revel for a short time in unrestrained merriment-- possibly revive a sense of optimism -- and foster some appreciation for Mozart and admiration for the remarkable woman whose accomplishments were vast, and whose life stands as a positive role model for anyone with talent and serious ambition.<br /><br />Fortunately, many responded as I had hoped, but as usual, representatives of the Left felt compelled to march in and start throwing the moral equivalent of cold pee into the midst of an otherwise pleasant, festive atmosphere. Their method, of course, is to derail the discussion by diverting our attention to their habitual exercise of Critical Theory, which never fails to subvert and pervert whatever positive uplifting aspects there be by dragging our attention downward to the sadly solemn celebration of Depression, Derogation, Degradation, Uncertainty and Despair in which THEY, apparently, thrive and wish the REST of us to revel.<br /><br />I won't have it here. Obviously, I can't control the rest of the world, but this is an extension of my personal space, and I refuse to be bullied, insulted, annoyed and depressed by TOXIC influences in my territory.<br /><br />I'm not going to name names, because it's hardly necessary, but the best way to describe these unwelcome advances would be to liken them to the experience of being pinned to the wall at a crowded gathering by someone who rarely brushes -- and never flosses -- his teeth, and then has the unmitigated gall to lecture you could improve your personal hygiene. UGH!<br /><br />FreeThinkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16682678301019952436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-45514534290195055542014-07-15T19:40:12.978-04:002014-07-15T19:40:12.978-04:00Having played more classical Trumpet than jazz or ...Having played more classical Trumpet than jazz or pop I obviously developed an appreciation for the type and style of music we both enjoy. I will be forever thankful for having done so.Les Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-76504345157501093002014-07-15T18:13:43.494-04:002014-07-15T18:13:43.494-04:00Thank you, too, Les, for the affirmative remarks. ...Thank you, too, Les, for the affirmative remarks. I'm glad you found this sparkling vivacious bit of Mozart to your liking. <br /><br />Nt everything needs to be dissected, chopped in bits and raked over the coals. Often it's best just to stand back, open our ears and our minds and LISTEN when we're in the presence of something wonderful that far exceeds our own capabilities. FreeThinkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16682678301019952436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-35747735495437028362014-07-15T18:07:55.841-04:002014-07-15T18:07:55.841-04:00Jez,
I've said this before, and I'll say...Jez, <br /><br />I've said this before, and I'll say it again. You and I might just as well have come from different planets and belong to two different species for all we have in common.<br /><br />You don't understand me, you only think you do. I'm sufficiently modest to admit I don't understand you, but frank and impertinent enough to add I'm not at all sure I'd ever want to.<br /><br />My interests are many and varied as are my abilities. I'm motivated much more by a love of Beauty than by an aversion to Ugliness. I am quite sure I know the difference between them -- and yes I am fully aware that Worthiness and true Beauty may be found in the poorest, humblest circumstances, and is hardly dependent on the accumulation of great wealth or gaudy, quasi-palatial surroundings. I'm equally aware that some of the best educated, most refined, erudite and accomplished individuals are capable of shocking rudeness, infinite cruelty, extreme callousness and revolting degrees of intemperance and self-indulgence.FreeThinkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16682678301019952436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-77189135655860477852014-07-15T17:48:19.013-04:002014-07-15T17:48:19.013-04:00Thersites, your lengthy quotation from Plato was n...Thersites, your lengthy quotation from Plato was not lost on me. <br /><br />I certainly would agree that "inspiration" -- I more often call it Insight -- comes from God -- if you prefer to call Him the Muse, it's all right with me, but I disagree that one cannot be "in his right mind" in order to create a worthy poetic utterance. <br /><br />I'm sure Mme. Lhevinne would be among the first to agree that after inspiration strikes realizing one's artisti]c vision boils down to 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration. ;-) While no one can "teach" anyone to become a genius, it takes a great deal of skillful instruction, craftsmanship, and dedicated honing of necessary skills to fulfill the promise of genius.<br /><br />I've had an excellent education in my field, and stand as living prof that mere talent,high IQ, great love and deep commitment are not quite enough to produce an artist of the first rank. I'm in that lamentable category of having been good, but not quite good enough.<br /><br />What one needs to achieve real success as a concert artist is far beyond excellence. One must be touched by The Divine.<br /><br />Still, if I had it to do all over again, I would likely do the same. Ir's still great fun riding on the merry-go-round, even if one never capturse the Brass Ring.<br /><br /><b><i>"A man's reach should always exceed his grasp."</i></b>FreeThinkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16682678301019952436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-8352754004607623782014-07-15T17:29:15.093-04:002014-07-15T17:29:15.093-04:00"I used to like Metallica and other hard rock...<i>"I used to like Metallica and other hard rock and metal, but angry music just has no appeal to me anymore. I guess I'm mellowing with age."</i><br /><br />I doubt that, Kurt, I think it means you might have grown up at last. If you hadn't, I doubt we'd be able to talk with ne another as we do.<br /><br />One of the greatest things about serious such as Haydn, Mozart, beethoven, Brahms, <i>et al.</i> is that IF you begin to enjoy it and develop a love for it, it never goes out of style, never becomes tiresome, and only seems more wonderful, more beautiful, more fascinating and more meaningful with each repeated hearing. Each great work is like a bottle of some rare and perfect vintage that automatically replenishes itself as you imbibe. <br />FreeThinkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16682678301019952436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-35409924924520508462014-07-15T16:20:16.728-04:002014-07-15T16:20:16.728-04:00I find myself in rare agreement with Ducky.
All o...I find myself in rare agreement with Ducky.<br /><br />All of the arts, including TV, cinema and music, are very fragmented. <br /><br />In music, we have fewer big stadium-fillers like U2, but thousands of niche bands thriving and making their smaller but dedicated fan base happy.Silverfiddlehttp://westernhero.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-45047325648918556522014-07-15T15:58:27.487-04:002014-07-15T15:58:27.487-04:00@RN ---
Art, whether good art (Mozart), or poor a...@RN --- <br />Art, whether good art (Mozart), or poor art (as in yesterday's Shit on You) has impact on society. <br />------<br />I'm not sure that's true much these days.<br /><br />Music has become a method of clan identification. Don't know that it has much impact any longer. <br /><br />If you want to find contemporary art that engages the mind rather than strictly the emotions you really have to hunt.<br /><br />The "classics" are great and I love them but it's also a very static world that invites complacency.<br />Ducky's herehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14608115001116619877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-29693229009220907662014-07-15T14:36:38.280-04:002014-07-15T14:36:38.280-04:00@ Jez: The passage of time makes music pure. As th...@ Jez: <i>The passage of time makes music pure. As the hair and the politics recede into distant memory, I think we can play the Pistols in our cars without looking like posers -- it's just music now. </i><br /><br />I actually meant a man at that time, but I agree with you.<br /><br />I was a fan of The Clash and the Sex Pistols (Nevermind the Bollocks was their only album) as a young man in the mid 80's, even though I had nothing in common with angry kids from London.<br /><br />Looking back, I think it was the music that attracted me more than lyrics. I don't remember discerning any message from the music other than just rebelling against adults. I was also into country back then, so go figure.<br /><br />I used to like Metallica and other hard rock and metal, but angry music just has no appeal to me anymore. I guess I'm mellowing with age.Silverfiddlehttp://westernhero.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-8378995340616868992014-07-15T14:21:50.020-04:002014-07-15T14:21:50.020-04:00If only other art forms had originated with the ma...If only other art forms had originated with <a href="http://youtu.be/vuvbdDWx2ZA" rel="nofollow">the masses</a>, and not the <a href="http://youtu.be/QTM0wW2SNlU" rel="nofollow">Hoadwy Towdy</a> and/or <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW088geXGEs" rel="nofollow">Oxfordian</a> elites...-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16745768408538827278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-89276475864436689642014-07-15T14:08:38.267-04:002014-07-15T14:08:38.267-04:00...or was it the world's first Broadway musica......or was it the world's first <a href="http://youtu.be/_rPUpDlx-JQ" rel="nofollow">Broadway musical</a>... I am a bit unclear on my revisionist herstory.-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16745768408538827278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-15807110578584854202014-07-15T14:04:03.965-04:002014-07-15T14:04:03.965-04:00That's quite a herstory of the popera, pShaw. ...That's quite a herstory of the popera, pShaw. I didn't know that Jacopo Peri wrote the <a href="http://youtu.be/AzB6Pf-jemo" rel="nofollow">Three Penny Opera</a>...-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16745768408538827278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-62673506138319732932014-07-15T13:48:43.286-04:002014-07-15T13:48:43.286-04:00Else, you probably had to be there.Else, you probably had to <a href="http://youtu.be/yOi18YUhqqo" rel="nofollow">be there</a>.-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16745768408538827278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-145653764764266444.post-14656883391164684112014-07-15T13:39:45.135-04:002014-07-15T13:39:45.135-04:00La maestra.
Did you take lessons from her, FT?La <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxG9D0Q35EI" rel="nofollow">maestra</a>.<br /><br />Did you take lessons from her, FT?-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16745768408538827278noreply@blogger.com